Justin Nassiri: Serial Entrepreneur, Navy Veteran, Founder & CEO of Executive Presence on Scaling + Growing in Business & Life
As one of the most important professional channels, LinkedIn is increasingly critical - and tricky - to navigate. Justin Nassiri founded Executive Presence, a company that helps executives find the right way to show up for an authentic audience through consistent and relevant messaging.
In this episode, Justin talks with Andrew Vontz about the power of storytelling, the multiple dimensions of performance and performing, music as a catalyst for collaborative learning, and why he chooses transparency and vulnerability as a leader.
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Justin spent the last decade as a serial entrepreneur. He started multiple tech companies focused on marketing services, and launched Beyond the Uniform, the #1 podcast on iTunes for military career transition advice. He’s also a qualified nuclear engineer and studied electrical engineering at the Naval Academy, all before attending the Stanford University Graduate School of Business.
You can find Justin on on LinkedIn.
LISTEN NOW: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, Google Podcasts, Stitcher
Choose the Hard Way is a podcast where guests share stories about how hard things build stronger humans. Sign up for the newsletter to get the story behind these stories updates and more. If you’d like to suggest a guest or say hello, DM @hardwaypod on social or send an email to choosethehardway@gmail.com.
Host Andrew Vontz has spent more than 25 years telling and shaping the stories of the world’s top performers, brands and businesses. He has held executive and senior leadership roles at the social network for athletes Strava and the human performance company TRX. His byline has appeared in outlets like Rolling Stone, Outside magazine, The Los Angeles Times and more.
Today he advises and consults with businesses and nonprofits on high-impact storytelling strategies and coaches leaders to become high-performance communicators. Find him on LinkedIn or reach out to choosethehardway@gmail.com
In This Episode:
Justin Nassiri on LinkedIn
Executive Presence Website
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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn
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Justin Nassiri 1:12
Yeah. So one of the best things. So for college, I went to the Naval Academy. And one of the best things that I did was I was part of a singing group there called the men's Glee Club. And one part of it was the group was really good. But one part was, who doesn't love a backdrop of people in uniform. And so by virtue of those two things we ended up performing and our proximity to DC. We just ended up performing at some like, really incredible events. And so during my four years, I sang for President Carter, President Clinton, both President Bush's and in my senior year, I was the president of our group. And so you know, rank Cathy has its privileges, it was able to spend 15 minutes with President Bush and his wife just with me, and our senior officer just shooting the shit for 15 minutes. And so not only was able to perform for him, but was able to just kind of chat with him and interact with him, which is a real, you know, in retrospect, I don't think I fully appreciated the enormity of that. But I feel like you know, now 20 years later, I realized, like man to achieve the presidency, like what does it take to achieve? I just, I'm in awe of a lot of our clients who are CEOs of couple of 100 person companies to get to that level, how much more determination and ability does it take? And so I'd probably use that time differently, or I do where I had to go back. But even at that young age, it gave me just an impression of like, wow, this is this is someone who is really shaped world events in a way I can't really comprehend.
Andrew Vontz 2:56
Did you have any idea that you might end up getting some kind of private time with the president during that engagement? Or did it just really just kind of like, Hey, Justin, you, we really enjoyed your
Justin Nassiri 3:06
thank you. It was? Yeah, I think it was pretty last minute. So we were this specific event was the opening of his presidential library. And I believe what happened was they just said, Hey, he's got, you know, he's got a little bit of time, he asked if you guys wanted to meet with him. And so it was probably better, I would have been more nervous that I had more time to think about it, but it was pretty last minute.
Andrew Vontz 3:30
When did you get into singing?
Justin Nassiri 3:34
It was in high school. And I wish I wish I could say that my love of music was pure, I think at the time, I was avoiding physical education and so marching band and vocal ensemble those were ways to get out of it, which I honestly regret music was great for me. But I really wish you know, like someone like you who really appears like the your, your physicality has been a huge component of your growth. And much later in life, I'm finding that but so I was avoiding PE and got into music. But that ended up being also a foundation of my leadership journey where I ended up being drum major for our high school. And then in college, I ended up being president of the men's Glee Club. And I would say that, you know, even amidst a lot of leadership experiences, those both were very formative of just helping me understand this crazy thing of how do you lead a group? How do you plan how do you motivate How do you inspire? How do you use different leadership skills based on the circumstances? And I kind of feel like those things you just have to learn by doing or at least I do. I read a lot of books, but I'm not sure how much that affects my leadership style. But I can think of specific times that I took an approach and it worked or it didn't work. And I think that that still shows up in how I lead today as a CEO,
Andrew Vontz 5:04
in within the context of music, because of course not everyone listening to this show has had the opportunity to be in a band or to be in a choir or a Glee Club. I also when I reflect back on my experiences with leadership and collaboration, I played in bands in high school, I played in punk rock and hardcore bands. I didn't really you know, ironically, I didn't regard myself as much of an athlete at all, because I went to a high school where I had classmates that went on to play in the NFL, and that was kind of a normal thing. Well, at the high school, I went to as a very small skinny kid, everybody thought I should be an amazing distance runner, because I was somewhat tall and very skinny. Turns turns out, I wasn't. But I love playing in a band. And you know, having to sit down with the same guys, every guys that I've loved, and I love spending time with, but having to hash out things like, you know, how are we going to create a song or after a show? How do we split the money? And what if someone shows up and they're intoxicated and doesn't play to the best of their ability, things like that? I think we're great experiences for me. So for you, within the context of getting people together to sing, I didn't have that particular music experience. But what kind of like coordination or leadership has to happen in a group like that?
Justin Nassiri 6:22
I'll give, I'll give a couple general thoughts. And then I have a specific story that just stands out as you bring that up. I think that a couple of things that I've benefited from just music in general was was, first of all, just that the concept of practice, and how anything requires repetition. And that through repetition, you can get better. So that was one thing that stood out. A second was one thing I like about I think any team of which a music group is certainly a team. I do like the element that it is the sum that's greater than the parts. And so the sense that sometimes you are in the spotlight, and sometimes you're in the background, and sometimes you're complimenting someone else, and sometimes they're complimenting you. So I feel like there's something there for not just leadership, but life of this sense of like, it's, I feel like my perception of society today is it's more like we're all striving to be our own single YouTube star. And I feel like I wish we adopted more of this mentality of team and how we can complement each other. But I'll share one specific story. And it's music is the backdrop, but it's pretty representative of how I learned. My last year at the Naval Academy, we were about to go on stage, we were on a seven day tour, it was very demanding, everyone was exhausted. We're on the risers, the curtains down, and it's about to go up. And it's you know, 5000 persons sold out auditorium. And on trips like this, you know, tempers are very thin. And I forget the exact it was our conductor had said something about what we were going to perform. And then, you know, one of the guys in the group asked the exact thing he had just said, which you know, the conductor just lost. And he's like, are you honestly not listening? And it's just seconds to go before the curtain goes up. And just, you know, you can sense the tension in the group that's not going to help them do their best work. And so I just kind of went with the moment and I just, you know, the guy's name was Alexander. I said, Alexander, what have you done, you've ruined Christmas. And it wasn't even that funny. But it was like so tense that just everyone laughed. It really released that nervousness. Literally, they know that my vice vice president standing next to me looked at me, he's like, Thank you, and like the curtain went up, and we gave a great performance. And so I feel like, you know, I feel like great music. There's a lot of improvisation and great music. There's a lot of just kind of going with the energy of the moment. I think that my experience with leadership is that it's kind of sensing what's going on with the group. And what does the group need? What does the moment command from us. And very often, as a leader, I think it brings discomfort, but you have to be willing to do what the moment requires, regardless of personal preference, or even if it's in your best interest, if it's in best interest of the group.
Andrew Vontz 9:29
Right? And we of course are going to talk about your new company, or it's your most recent company, rather, executive presence, and it's in the LinkedIn space, which we've covered in the introduction, but something you posted recently was about General John Allen and you talked about how he's the best leader you've ever worked with or been in the presence of you gave some examples of characteristics that he exhibited. Is there any specific moment to you that really embodies be who he was as a leader and why you admired him so much.
Justin Nassiri 10:05
Yeah, he a very good friend of mine passed away while I was at the Naval Academy. And I just remember that, you know, I'd known him in a professional context for a while. But just, you know, I was very close with him and seated with his parents and two of my friends. And he just kind of he came up in that moment. And what I, what I remember, like the felt sense, was just the extreme compassion and empathy he had for these two parents. And for us as friends. You know, he had been a leader at that point, he was a, I believe he was a colonel, he wasn't yet a general, I believe. And so he had, you know, obviously, led men who had who had died in service. And so I think he knew that and he was apparent himself. But it was just this sense of like, well, here's this leader, who is the second person in charge of 5000 students in this Naval Academy, and all of these things, he's got so much here. And yet in these moments that matter, he brought a level of humanity, he brought a level of vulnerability, he like, brought his whole self, which I think is important in any leader, but I think in the military, where, you know, you're, you're in a uniform, and you have all of these requirements, you have all these expectations, it can be, you know, easier to be buttoned up and emotionally distance. And he really just brought a level of love and compassion that was so meaningful. And I think that that, to me, represented the type of leader he was that on a stage, he could command a crowd, but in the most trying intimate, personal situations, he could, he could be there one on one just as intently and there was no difference between the man I saw on the stage, and the man I saw in that intimate setting, it was just him being a person of tremendous character. And, you know, I just believe like that level of leadership, it can be felt like physically in the room, it's like, that's literally, you know, the name of my company executive presence, we would talk about that at the Naval Academy, like, executive presence was something that when you walk into a room, the people there feel the person that you are they feel the leader that you are. And that's, that's what I experienced in that room was that level of, of presence that's just really overpowering. And to me on spiring.
Andrew Vontz 12:37
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that feeling of presence. There's a component of charisma, but there's something super ordinate to that, I think, what people who are great leaders, something that it's making me think about is, and part of why I reached out to you because I saw of, you know, what you've been doing with executive presidents, I've been following you on LinkedIn. And I actually, you know, probably a decade later, I still remember sitting down and having like a 30 minute meeting with you. When I was the head of content at TRX you were working on, I think, what at the time was your first startup, and you were in there, I think pitching it to us or trying to get us to use the service. And at that time, I thought, wow, this person has has presence and something about it stuck with me. And then seeing you a decade later, I was like, Oh, of course this guy has had this incredible trajectory and is doing all these interesting things down here. Thank you. Yeah, for sure. And as you reflect back on, it also feels a little bit weird to talk to someone about the, you know, like, Who were they in high school? It's not, it's just just like not a common question for adults. Yet, when someone does something like goes to an academy, for example, I think there is a degree of interest in both, particularly in the midst of the Jiwon. What like, What drew you to going to an academy, knowing what the other side of that might look like? And who were you as a person when you entered? And what did you become by the time you left? I know, that's a very big question. But yeah, what do you think about that,
Justin Nassiri 14:12
man? I think I think one of my character traits that I hear from people is is earnest and I think that's that lands for me. And I think in high school there was that that component of of earnestness of wanting to do the right thing, and so I think, you know, I think the decision so my brother who's 18 months older than me, he went to the Naval Academy, and I'd never heard about it until he went, and I was pretty resistant, because I didn't want you know, after being back to back in school through high school, I didn't want to feel in his shadow. And a teacher of mine that I respected, pulled me aside. I don't know how she picked up on that fear. But she literally said it's a big place. You can pave your own way. And I don't know if I would have gone without her saying that. And when I visited Josh, my brother at the Naval Academy, I think that the sense that I had was like, wow, I can I can solve for academic rigor at other options. But this really feels like academic rigor, physical rigor, moral rigor, it just felt like, I think the challenge is one of the things that drew me there. And then I think, from that earnest spot, the sense of service, the sense of obligation, like a lot of patriotism, that was was something that drew drove me there as well. I haven't done a lot of the post mortem on the before and after, for me, I'll say that, you know, at this point in my life now, with two young kids, I have maybe a more nuanced view, I think that I think that, you know, on the pro side, I think that, you know, like, being a mama's boy, probably through the end of high school, I think it was a very powerful separation of just being on my own in a very different way than even if I had gone off to college. So I think that there was, for me a lot of necessary growing up and just kind of stepping into who I am, that was very beneficial. I think that the leadership training is unparalleled, I think that they give their students a lot of leadership responsibility. And that continued in my time of the Navy, but I feel like I left as a much stronger leader. And I think that I also left with a sense of connection and team, you know, valuing a team, I think that they put you through this crucible experience. And the result is that to this day, you know, if I run into anyone who served in the military, or anyone who went to a service academy, it's like, instantly, I know a lot about them, like there's so much shared history that I really value. So I think those were the positives that I left with. I think that my my experience, especially now with an eight week old daughter is I think that the negative was, you know, the school at the time was 85%. Male. And I think that I entered fairly innocent. And I think I left with a, I know the word toxic is used, you know, too much today. But I do think it was a immature and toxic view of women. I think that, you know, I look back on the jokes that we told at dinner, the jokes that I laughed at the things that I said, I really cringe and think like, wow, like, one, I wasn't having the normal college interaction where half my classmates were females, and I was learning empathy and compassion and seeing their viewpoint, it became more of this, you know, they better pull their weight just like we do. It just was like such a immature view of women. And I think that's one of the things I mourn most about the negative of when I left and took time to correct on that. And I think I think the other is that, you know, while the leadership training and the military training was exceptional, and that's why it was there. I also feel like I was behind when I went to business school, there was so much catching up to do of not knowing common, just very common business things. And that's fine. I think that there's a way to catch up on that. But that was definitely a disadvantage of the experience.
Andrew Vontz 18:24
What was your sense of who you wanted to become over time, even when you enter the Academy? Did you have the sense that at some point, I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I'm going to go into business for myself? Or was that not in your sphere of consciousness?
Justin Nassiri 18:38
It wasn't, you know, I don't it might be revisionist history. But I don't really remember thinking of that as a career path option. And I think that because of the level of ignorance, I think that my perception of what life would look like after the military was very vague of doing some sort of job and making good money. I don't think I had any sense for what that would look like, what the capacity would look like. And it wasn't really until I left the military. And I was at business school in the Bay Area, and I was exposed to entrepreneurship. To me, at least in the revisionist history, that's really the first time I can remember putting the dots together of like, oh, you could have an idea and start something and it could be really big, like that is a that's an actual career path. But but going into it, it wasn't wasn't really in my consciousness.
Andrew Vontz 19:34
And so when did it come into your consciousness? Because the I mean, I could be wrong. I'd love to hear your take based on the leadership kind of methodologies and style that you've learned. I mean, as you said, even in high school, you were a leader, right? And then you became a different kind of leader in the academy in the military. And then, when did you decide? Yeah, I actually want to go into business. For myself, and I have some ideas on what to explore. And was there like an aha moment? When you encountered something? He was like, Yeah, I wanted to try that.
Justin Nassiri 20:07
Yeah. So I wrote my essays, to apply to business school about what I knew, which was many friends had gone out of the military, gone to business school, and then gone into consulting and use that time to figure out what they wanted to do. So that was my plan all along. And I looked at something at the time called Search funds, which is entrepreneurship through acquisition where you raise money, you kind of buy a mom and pop shop, business, and then kind of take it to the next level, right. And so that was, you know, that really appealed to me of thinking like, wow, I could be instantly in charge of a company. That's pretty cool. But I had enough self awareness to think like, I don't really have enough business experience to do that independently. So maybe I couldn't find a classmate to partner with, where we could complement each other and make it work. And so that was, you know, probably a year I spent at business school doing that search and wasn't able to. So I accepted a consulting offer to go to New York with McKinsey and Company. And when I graduated, the next day, I flew to Alaska with two classmates. We took another plane to Wrangell. St. wrangles Alliance, National Park. And we, you know, planed in and hiked for two weeks, and the plane flew back and picked us up and flew us out. And lots of time in those two weeks to have conversations. But I had six months before my start date. And I had been thinking about a business idea. And one of the guys hiking with me said, Hey, man, if you spend six weeks and $30,000, working on this idea, and all you get out of it is a story that you tell at the bar and you go off and do consulting, it's worth it, it's worth six months and 30 grand. And so that's exactly what I did. I think that was the nudge that I needed to take that risk. And in retrospect, it was a gift in that it was fairly risk free. I had I had a great job waiting for me, I didn't really need to worry about money. So I had a fair bit of time. And I started to tinker with an idea. And eventually got to the point where I told McKenzie, I said, Look, I don't know if this will ever work out. But I love this whole startup thing. And I'd rather be broke and do this, then come join you. And and then, you know, weeks later, I got a seed round of funding. So it it worked out. But I do think regardless of the outcome, I think I would have been happy with that, like having found something that was more well suited to who I am.
Andrew Vontz 22:44
This isn't how I built this, of course. But I am very curious, when you identified the problem space. And I'd love to hear how at that time you thought of the problem space? What opportunity did you see? And what was your minimum viable test? Or how did you approach prototyping your solution?
Justin Nassiri 23:03
Well, I think I think one fault over the last 10 years is that I get very energized creatively. But I think that a fault that I have is I don't give scrutiny to the business model behind it. And that applies to my first company that applies to my podcast, many things I get excited about because I enjoy the creation process. But I would have benefited from slowing down to say, okay, is this the biggest business opportunity to solve? And not just solving for creative excitement, but also for business viability. But the you know, the high level overview was I had a two semester class at business school that was around starting a company. And we use that process to stumble on the idea of how do we preserve life memories. And this was, you know, prior, excuse me prior to Facebook timeline, but the thought was, what if we had a way where, you know, we could get the stories from our parents so that our future kids know who our parents are? How could we collect their life stories. And so that was the very first starting point, which proved to be extremely cumbersome to solve. But the piece and the insight that came out of that, that was that video is a very compelling way to capture your story. And so I had a call with someone at eHarmony, who talked about the power of testimonials, and how there was a business use case there and how they had a lot of budget for that. So I kind of left behind the consumer facing idea and transitioned it to be more about selling to businesses, the power of easy customer testimonials on video. And then that evolved once Instagram came out more around capturing photos that customers were sharing in the wild and bringing it to a company's website. So there were several very big transition, some of which I caught too late. But hopefully that gives us an example for listeners of sometimes you know, the where where it ends up is very far from where it starts,
Andrew Vontz 25:11
as you had to make those pivots, where you chose to make those pivots to move into new spaces where you saw a higher opportunity are the potential for higher ROI for the space or idea that you were pursuing? Did you continue to feel excited about the mission of the business and what you were doing? Because you started with, we want to preserve memories for future generations, once you're doing something for Budweiser, for example, who was one of your clients? Was that still exciting to you, as a human versus as an entrepreneur trying to run a business?
Justin Nassiri 25:46
You know, hearing that it makes me think like, you know, in every singing group, or music group I was part of, you know, you play the same things, or seeing the same things over and over again. But for me, every time it was still enjoyable, I'm curious for major artists, if this is true, doing it millions of times, but like, even though it was 1000s of times, for me, being in front of a crowd and seeing their excitement, like that was energizing. And I feel like with entrepreneurship, sometimes it's it's just kind of finding the overarching theme, which for me, now, looking back after a decade, it's kind of storytelling is the through line that I very clearly see on across everything that I've done. And so I think that even though it wasn't conscious at the time, I think that that's what preserved my excitement, which was okay, it started as storytelling for families. Now, it's changed to storytelling for companies. But I still am excited about that, because there is this element of authenticity, which is very important to me, storytelling, which is very important to me. And I think that those common elements, they weren't conscious at the time, but I think that they, you know, in retrospect, that's what kind of kept the creative driver. And the other thing that I'll say is, you know, I don't have a clear thesis on this, but I feel like, I feel like it's great for most people, myself included, to care about what we do. But I think that something that drives enjoyment is success. And I think that, you know, Cal Newport has written about this in his book, deep work. But I think that like when we have more and more autonomy, and we have more and more experience that leads to fulfillment, like we feel like we're growing. So I would even extend it to say like, Hey, if the business had morphed into, you know, capturing tick tock videos of pigs, if that was really successful, I think that would have driven enjoyment, because I would have felt like I was growing, I would have felt like I was at the forefront of something. And I think that I underestimated the time how valuable that is, and how little the particular subject matter might matter.
Andrew Vontz 27:52
What is it about storytelling that you enjoy and find to be compelling as a human and from a business point of view?
Justin Nassiri 28:00
Well, I've never been asked that. But I mean, the first thing that comes up is like one of my and this is a cliche, but one of my favorite things still is movies, like and I will I love going to the movie theater, I love seeing storytelling at the highest level, in my opinion, and sharing that with others. I think that like that's one of the reason I love being in a theater theater is like, just you're experiencing something in real time together. And I think that has primitive roots all the way back to sitting around fireplaces. I think it's very intrinsic to all of us. But and I even I don't know if you know, the show Mystery Science Theater 3000, which I love to watch, you know, they're making fun of really bad movies. I even noticed, you know, I loved that commentary. But there were times, even with these really awful movies, where it's like, Hey, guys, shut up with the commentary. I want to follow this story. Like, there's just something that was like, even if it's a bad story, I really like the journey that it takes you on. And so I think that that's always been compelling for me. And, you know, I did my podcast, and that was essentially hearing people's stories and hearing their journeys. And what I do now with executive presence is the same thing. It's kind of storytelling and help people helping people tell their stories. So I don't know if that's a clear answer. But I just feel like there's something. There's something about me that I learn best through stories, and those are the things that stick with me. And, you know, I read a lot. I probably can't tell you the core tenants of the business books that I have read, but I could probably tell you the basic arc of every story book that I've read every fiction book of fiction that I've read, I could probably recall the characters or the journey or what happened. And so it's just kind of realizing like, the way my brain works if something's gonna stick, I gotta find a way to wrap it in a story because that just drives It drives it much deeper. For me, it's something you
Andrew Vontz 30:02
mentioned in relation to the podcast specifically, which I'd love to talk about for a bit. And I know you did an episode a few months ago, where you talked about what was happening with the podcast. And you mentioned the business case around the podcast. And you know, the ROI wasn't there from a business point of view, and you were kind of figuring out, what do you want to do with it? As you think about that, now, and what you've gotten out of the podcast? Is it the case that it's had ROI in other ways? Is it delivered other things to you, from bearing witness to other people's experiences sharing them? Is there anything personally you've gotten out of it?
Justin Nassiri 30:43
I, you know, it's funny. In this moment, the answer is a resounding yes. But a year ago, I'm not sure what I would have said. But my my company executive presence, like the the core premises of what we do is we interview CEOs, and use that to create social media content for their personal social media accounts. And so when I look back now, and I'm doing the post mortem in this moment, I have a tremendous amount of gratitude, where I think, wow, because of my podcast, I had 465 repetitions of interviewing military veterans, many of whom were CEOs, like, I got better at asking questions, I got better at following the thread and trusting my instinct. And so it's hard to imagine me doing the work that I do right now without that. And it's very difficult for me to imagine coming up with the business idea without that. So in this moment, I feel gratitude, because I feel like it literally led to my current company, which is the most fulfilling, creative and professional thing I've ever done. But I'll also say that, you know, in the five years running that podcast, there were so many times where I felt so much resentment, where I felt like I was doing this act of service to support military veterans. And in you know, selfishly, I would think, like, well, what have I gotten out of this? I looked at the time and money I invested, which was tremendous. And there was not money coming back to me in a meaningful way. And I was meeting people, but I thought, well, you know, I've got these people I've met. But is that network really meaningful? Will it mean anything to me? And so I just kind of was looking at it more from like, what am I directly getting from this. And I feel like in this moment, what I'm valuing is the skill that I learned there is likely no monetary benefit, may be some personal branding benefit. But what I wish I would have appreciated the time was like, I'm getting repetitions, at a skill, which is interviewing, which will serve me later on. And, you know, I guess if I really were to go back, I wish I would have gone in cleanly with, I'm going to invest this amount of time and money to develop a skill. And I don't need anything else from that. I think that would have prevented the roller coaster, I felt a feeling in love with the podcast, and then at times feeling really resentful. And like it was a one way relationship.
Andrew Vontz 33:24
What was your intent when you launch the podcast? What did you hope you would achieve and that you would get out of it?
Justin Nassiri 33:30
i So this goes back to my my lack of business model. From the start. I think that generosity is one of my values. And it's one of our company values as well. I think it came from that spot of realizing how little insight I had in the military about what I would do afterwards, realizing how many hundreds of 1000s of people share that pain point. And just wanting to try to make a dent in the problem. And so I think it did come from an altruistic spot of let me give back to this community, let me help solve a problem. And I don't think at the outset, there was any, you know, I was running another company at the time, I don't think there was any desire for it to do anything more than be this creative outlet. I think over time, as I invested more and more of myself in it, then it started to become more about like, well, could this be a company? Could this be my next thing? Could this be my full time job? But I think about that a lot because it's like, sometimes I feel like businesses or organizations have a life of their own, that they're meant to play out. And I see ways in which I tried to wrestle this to be something that wasn't I tried to wrestle it to be a full time job or I tried to wrestle it to be passive income for me, which was never meant to be. And so I take away from that even with executive presence, like to what extent can I have my desires but also really Respect the life of this organization and what it's meant to be in might that might not be in alignment with what I'm wanting, and that's okay as well, but not trying to force something to be something that it's not.
Andrew Vontz 35:13
I want to come back to how elements of that have manifested and what you've done with executive presence. And something that's on my mind right now is you spent all this time as a performer when you were a younger person. And what do you do with that today? Like, do you still have that urge to perform to be on actually on stage to sing to make music, like whatever the case may be? Do you enjoy that feeling of being in the spotlight? And now as a father, as a founder? How does that show up for you?
Justin Nassiri 35:46
Wow, it's a really good question. And it's funny, too, I think I'm pausing because my son, he was about to turn four. You know, I, I feel like one thing that comes through really powerfully from him is he's like, he's like an entertainer, he, I can see these aspects where he's very performative. And I think he gets that from me. I think that, you know, hearing that the first thought is like, wow, that's actually a big part of who I am, that I'm not really giving space to. And I'd like to think of more ways to do that. I think that on a smaller level with my team, you know, when we have team meetings, that is a chance for me, to present and for me to lead and for me to have a moment in the spotlight to connect with others. And I enjoy that. So it's a small way of doing that. I know that there are lots of times with friends where I really enjoy that, like, I really enjoy entertaining and telling jokes, and I really like that spotlight. But I think you're uncovering something I need to think about which is like I think that is a core need of mine. That is you know, definitely on the sidelines. For right now, though, you know, it's interesting, because as I invest more in my own social media presence, I can see how an element of that, you know, instead of applause, you're looking for likes, you know, it's like you're wanting that reaction. And it's interesting, because I feel like there can be a certain neediness that comes from that, and no one you know, a comedian that's like, needing you to laugh is like so off putting. And I feel like the same is true on social media. So I guess where I land is like hearing, you're saying that it's like, oh, I want to make sure I'm finding healthy ways to perform. So I'm not, you know, malnourished in that way, and then bringing that energy into my team setting or even my social media setting.
Andrew Vontz 37:41
Yeah, I even think about when you're working on something, that's a hard problem. And you need to take a break, I'll just share the one of the things that I like to do right next to me, I have my DJ setup. That's one of the like, I love making, I love producing electronic music, I love DJing. I love playing my guitar. But recently, when I need to just, you know, I'm working on a hard problem. I'm writing something, for example, and I've spent more than 25 years at this point is high level. And I think demonstrably very successful professional storyteller and writer. And I still find it to be incredibly difficult to do, it doesn't get easier for me. I mean, hopefully the work product gets better. But it's, it's always hard, I think, to make good creative output. But what I've found is if I can context switch, and go play with my DJ set up or like, go grab the guitar, something happens to me, there's some kind of alchemy there, where I'm activating another part of my brain. And when I come back to the problem, it's not necessarily easier, but typically, I can have a different approach to it. I've just talked about myself a lot. But I am asking this because I'm curious, like, is there anything that you do?
Justin Nassiri 38:59
I'll tell you, the by far the best. So I'm making a mental note because we have you know, we have in our basement, a piano, which I never use and like hearing you like picturing you DJ and I'm like, Oh man, that's like 10 minutes of that, I think would really, like you said it kind of exercises a different part. And there's like a self expression component. So that's, that's something that's actionable. I appreciate that. I think right now, the number one thing that I do, and I would like to do more of it is learn from a teacher, John Weinland. And he calls it sitting in nature meticulously doing nothing. And this was something I did on Sunday. I was fried. I was just, you know, God bless my wife. She realized I was just out of gas. And so she's like, Hey, I'll take the kids for two hours. And so I went, you know, mile away to the closest Park here in Denver, and I sat on a bench, and I did nothing I didn't meditate, I didn't think about things, I just literally tried to meticulously do nothing. And my intention is to do an hour of that per week. And I will tell you, every time I do it, I leave with, you know, zero to maybe 80%. In my gas tank, like it is such an enormous thing. And I think part of that is being outside being in nature, I think part of that is feeling connected, because I'm sitting and I'm seeing ducks and birds and people, it's like, I noticed the aperture of my focus, which is myopic, and self centered, expands. And I'm like, wow, there are animals and people in their own struggle right now. And it's just like, there's something about that. But I think that like, you know, someone who's very introverted, but I think this is true for everyone, there is a component of just not having any demand. That's incredibly nourishing. I don't have to plan or solve or even meditate correctly, I just have to be. And that is the thing that you know, in terms of ROI, it is, it is very difficult for me to sit for an hour and not do anything. And when I do, I haven't found anything that really tops me off in that way. You know, other things are certainly meditation and reading and movies and connecting with a friend one on one, like, I'm starting to learn my laundry list of things that tend to charge me. But that one's one that's always accessible and doesn't require anyone else and tends to be the most powerful.
Andrew Vontz 41:35
And as a family person, someone with kids, someone with a partner, someone who's a high achieving entrepreneur, when you don't have access to that practice, or you don't have the hour when you're in the moment, and maybe the baby has just filled the diaper. And something's you know, your four year old just broke something. How do you access presence in those moments? And do you have an off button? For work? Are you capable of shutting off the part of your mind that's actively processing? Gotta do this? You know, the team needs this thing, this client needs that thing? Is that tape always running for you? Or do you have an off button,
Justin Nassiri 42:18
I have an off button that I don't utilize nearly as much as I as I could. I, I have noticed. And I feel like this is the theoretical knowledge that I'm wanting to be a lot more practical and present in my life. But I've noticed that when I am fully present with my son, and all of his crazy young boy energy, and I just play and I'm with him, in my mind, that's a waste of time. But at the end, I feel more connected to him and I actually feel more rejuvenated. And the same thing with my my daughter who's eight weeks old. It is so hard like that, to me is like there's so many demands, and I'm sitting there with a bottle feeding her. In my mind, I'm like, oh, man, I can scroll Reddit now. Or I can watch Amazon Prime, or I can check LinkedIn, or I can check an email, like this is a space to do something or take care of myself. And that's, you know, to my shame, that's probably what I do 80% of the time. But the 20% when I can just put my phone on Do Not Disturb. And just look at her and stare at her eyes. Like it's counterintuitive, but I do feel myself grounding more. And I feel myself having more extra space in my life to handle things. You know, the other thing is my wife is much better at this. And she's a very patient and kind teacher with me. She you know, she has this fifth gear that I'm learning, which is when the craziness of our house is at an all time high for me, I want to rise to meet that like I want to explode towards my son or I want to like just take some sort of massive action. And she's able to just breathe and slow down and role model to our kids and to me honestly of like, I can do this, like I can go to a deeper level. And I'm able to do that honestly, one out of 100 times and when I do it feels great. It's like you feel like Keanu Reeves in the matrix like you see feel like the the bullet slowing down and you realize like to meet this unstoppable energy you don't need to meet it with unstoppable energy like you can meet it with presence and breath and, and and you know, taking that in and it's specifically for those of you who have sons, like, you know, it's just like, there's so much life in him and at times it's so overwhelming but if I can relax into that and just not try to change him not try to match his energy. Just try and make space for it. I think I think that comes in I think that makes them feel seen and heard and valued and loved. But it's so hard to fight my tendency, which is like, Oh, I'm gonna match your craziness with my craziness, which just it's, it becomes this ramping process that he usually wins out.
Andrew Vontz 45:16
Yeah, just um, one of the things you're saying that really resonates for me that when I entered my experience of being a parent, I didn't really I'm sure I had some preconceived notions of what the experience might be like. And then, like many things in life, life, then showed me what the experience would be, which had probably very little to do with my expectations. One of the things that I try to be present to and kind of like you probably one and 100 times I achieve this, but I actually work on it is, I really think about my children are amazing in so many different ways. And they present me with hundreds of opportunities every day, to expand the elasticity of my patients, and my presence. And I mean, you know, that's a gift, that's a meditation in itself. And if if you can't roll it, that it also can drive you kind of not. So my kids are both their total maniacs, and in the best way, right, they have very high energy. But a lot of that resonates with me, I wanted to come back, though, to this idea of performance, and you are in the LinkedIn space with your company. And when I think about social media, we also talked a bit about authenticity. And we know that it's important for leaders to show up with awesome authenticity, whether it's in real life or on social media. And, you know, LinkedIn, like all social social media, it's a performance, right? Like you're selectively presenting information. And so I wanted to talk a bit about how did you end up founding executive presence? And how did all of your past experience manifest in this moment, when you decided to move in the direction of forming those business?
Justin Nassiri 47:01
Yeah, I want to call out, I love your phrase, expanding the elasticity of patience. It's like, I just think that's powerful to me, because it's like, wow, when I'm being stretched, that's actually a good thing. It's like expanding that. So I really liked the way you said that. The short of it is, I was running another company, which I've since sold, and executive presence came out of that. And the founding principle was spending a lot of time on LinkedIn, I saw people with very loud and prominent voices. And I realized what an asset that is for hiring, fundraising, sales, partnerships, everything very envious of that. And I realized that from the podcast, from business school, from past experience, I realize there are people out there who have done unbelievable things. And they're not active on LinkedIn, because they're building an empire, they don't have time for it. And so my intention was, could I find a way to tap into the insight and experience of some of the most capable people on the planet, and in an efficient and authentic way, bring that to LinkedIn for them. Because if I could do that, they benefit from the voice, we all benefit from their advice. It's like a win win situation. And so that's really been the mission is like helping unlock that wisdom and bring it democratizing it, you know, first on LinkedIn, we're expanding to other social channels, but really upping the value of these news feeds, turning them from self promotion into master classes is really the goal. So that's that's kind of where the idea came from. I forget the second part of that. Was there a second part of the question?
Andrew Vontz 48:41
If there was, it must not have been very good? If you don't remember? Yeah.
Justin Nassiri 48:47
Just roll. Let's go, you know, you know, that you asked, I think we're, you know, the three line, I think what's most, what I'm most grateful for is, you know, again, looking back in retrospect, I see I see that story through line where it was, you know, with with story box and video, Genie, it was about customer storytelling. And with the podcast, like I see, experience, wise, how things have stacked, to lead me to what I'm doing for executive presence. But I would say even more powerfully, you know, coming off the heels of 10 years of essentially failed entrepreneurship. I feel like I'm definitely a weekly basis, I will take an action. And I have this moment of looking past down the funnel of a decade of failure. And I see how those failures helped me make the right action in this moment. And so I'm just really grateful for that. Because when I interact with my team, when I make a business decision that goes well, I realize it's not some innate ability. It is that like, Well, I really, you know, I've really made a lot of mistakes over the years and more importantly, I've learned from that And that allowed me to show up in this moment the way that I need to. And so it's, it's, you know, I'm grateful for kind of putting a bow on the last 10 years of like, Thank you like, it didn't appreciate it at the time. At the time, it felt like wandering in the wilderness at the time, it felt like, Will I ever get out of this? And it's given me this new perspective of like, well, I was exactly where I needed to be, I was learning exactly what I needed to learn. So that right now, I can show up as a much better leader, or a much better, you know, Father, or a much better salesperson or a much better marketer, whatever it is. It's given me more appreciation for the failures and unexpected turns that I didn't appreciate at the time. Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew Vontz 50:42
Progress is a nonlinear path. Yeah, typically, and when things are difficult, the benefit of those difficult things is typically non obvious. And I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing what that felt like. And during that, that decade of what you just described as entrepreneurial failure, did you at any point think I'm gonna go do something else, I'm just gonna go get a regular job. Now, I've had enough of this.
Justin Nassiri 51:09
I mean, probably probably, honestly, on a weekly basis, I probably had that thought. And I don't want to I don't want to diminish that either. Like, there is an alternate alternate universe where I threw in the towel on my first company, and found a job with the right company. And who knows, maybe I was just as if not more fulfilled and energized on that. I do tend to think that, because of how much energy I get from the creative process, and building something from scratch, and leading, I feel like entrepreneurship hits on a lot of the components that bring me joy. And I also recognize that entrepreneurship brings a lot of kryptonite for me, namely, the sustained and extreme level of six of stress is very, very difficult. And I think that that's, at least for me, unique to entrepreneurship, I think that identity and stress wouldn't be as high for me working for someone else, I wouldn't take it as seriously, I just think that that would be less. And then I think that the the other kryptonite for me is really like a need and desire to be liked and accepted. And so I can see the ways in which, for sales rejection cuts me a little bit deeper than people that I've seen that are really exceptional at sales. And they just it just sloughs it appears to slough off them, it appears that rejection doesn't faze them. And I realized, like, wow, that makes you a much better salesperson that you know, I always think of that statement. It's something like high school basketball players make a mistake, and it takes them 15 minutes to reset and get back in the game. And NBA players, it's something like 15 seconds. And so I think sometimes of like the disposition, that's a disadvantage of me for an entrepreneurship. Where in entrepreneurship, failure and rejection and setbacks is a daily if not hourly occurrence. And who knows, maybe maybe 10 years from now I'll look back, and I'll see this as the muscle building there. But I see that as one of the kryptonite for entrepreneurship, for me is like, it takes me still a while to reset, you know, I had a contractor quit. And that like affected me for days, it was a 10 hour a week contractor, which theoretically should not knock me off my game. And it did. Or I had a client cancel, or I had a sales not go through. And I think that those things just kind of, I allow them to affect me, viscerally, when I feel like people who are better, either who have gotten more experience or better disposition really align for entrepreneurship. They're able, they're just kind of reset like I think of like Elon Musk, whatever your view on him is, it's like dude, I would have crumbled, the amount of backlash he's gotten, and I think a lot of it's justified, I would have crumbled, but he just has this personality where he's okay with half of the world hating him and deriving him. And I just feel like man, I would have, I think I would crumble under that volume of hatred and push back. And leaders like him, appear to be able to just kind of persist through without that faze them, which can be a liability as well. But I see how it's an asset for entrepreneurship.
Andrew Vontz 54:33
Just to talk about Elon Musk for a moment because I have an armchair psychology point of view on what you just shared, which is, I think what Elon Musk actually enjoys and values the most is attention and in status. I mean, that's not a super novel insight. But when you reflect on what he shared about his childhood, being bullied, I think getting to be the center of attention, and to control the news cycle and have everyone in the world Paying attention to what he does is what he values more than anything else. It's also the one thing he cannot buy. Like he also cannot by being cool, and he would like to be cool. Yep. So that's that's my brief brief analysis of Elon Musk. So with what you're doing now, and I just sorry, one other reflection, as you were kind of sharing, taking a look at other entrepreneurs what they were doing their success. So I think all of us have these feelings of, if only I could just let criticism roll off me like water off a duck's back. Or if only I could be the NBA player, the resets and 15 seconds instead of 15 minutes. And at the end of the day, you want to maximize your potential as a human being. And the one thing that each of us has that is unique in this entire world and universe is is our meanness or Yunus whatever it's like, it's who we are. We can't be other people. Yep. So as you have moved into the newest phase of entrepreneurship, what feels different about this time? And does it feel more satisfying, less satisfying, the same as things you've done before? Like, how does it feel
Justin Nassiri 56:13
much more satisfying. So one example is very recently, I brought on a very senior hire. And it's such a joy to work with her, she is so exceptionally capable, where many of the things I give her, she does far better than if I did the micelles, but at the very least, I'm getting things off my plate, and someone's running with them to a very high level. And so that has, you know, that feels different. In the past, I either did things myself, or I hired very junior people who required more direction. And that feels much better for me of like, okay, let me get people who are really at the peak of their game and able to lead alongside me, I would say a second is that I do think I've built up a fair bit of resilience and more of an abundant mindset. And so when you know, all along this journey with executive presence, when we had cancellations, there are times where I would normally feel like the sky is falling. And instead, I'm able to shift to like, there's like millions of people I can work with out there, like, it's just kind of like I was able to shift out of that, and not panic and kind of remain grounded. So that feels good. I think a third way is one of our company values is being direct and direct and transparent, which is not my natural tendency. And, you know, especially in my first company, so many of the problems that came about were because I wasn't willing to be direct, I wasn't able to give harsh feedback, I wasn't able to be open, I was much more wanting to make everyone happy. And so I feel like that's something that's really powerful is to be able to cultivate more directness, and more transparency. So, you know, we have pay transparency, everyone knows what everyone makes. And I share a lot of our financials with our team, like I'm giving them a lot of information that makes me uncomfortable, but I feel like makes us better as a team. And really trying to get us used to, you know, we have everyone gets a monthly performance review with a rating and like just very concrete and direct. And I feel like that's a huge improvement, not just in the business, but in my life is developing that muscle of just being able to say exactly what I need to say, as succinctly as possible without beating around the bush. And I notice how people rise to that might sting a little bit. But they arise just in the same way that I do. And they're direct with me, and they call me out on a mistake I'm making. So those are those are a couple of ways that feel different right now.
Andrew Vontz 58:46
I don't say this about a lot of things that I experienced on LinkedIn. But I will say I find your content to be very compelling. And a lot of the things that you just shared, I mean this as a compliment in the best way possible. It's almost like you're becoming the Gary Vee of LinkedIn. Like I'm like, oh my god, did he just do that? Like you share that meeting of? Yeah, sharing like the pay, you made a video about pay transparency with your team and I, I was like, Holy shit, this guy's really doing this. And it's on LinkedIn. I thought that was it was great content and had me on the edge of my seat, which I can't typically say for something on LinkedIn. And you know, just with my past experience as a communications executive, I think if there's anybody out there listening to this, and you're a founder, you're CEO, you're an exec. You want to uplevel your presence on LinkedIn, executive presence, and Justin are doing incredible work and people should check it out. I know that people are always looking for these types of services, but I think you're solving and providing a solution that is desperately needed that you know, that I wasn't aware of before I saw you doing it, and to be direct. I know it's time to end this interview. So where can people find you Justin, where should they go? To learn more,
Justin Nassiri 1:00:00
yeah, email is Justin at executive presence.io. LinkedIn just in the serie, there's not a lot of us on LinkedIn, so should be easy to track me down. Those are kind of the two areas that I'm spending a lot of time on is email and LinkedIn. So those are two great ways. We also have the website executive presence.io. A lot of information there. There's a form you can fill out to connect that'll eventually get to me, as well. So if if you're looking to grow an audience on LinkedIn specifically, we'd love to work with you.
Andrew Vontz 1:00:33
Awesome. Justin, thanks so much for your time, and thanks for everything that you shared today. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.