Drew Dillman: Pro Cyclist, Creator, Entrepreneur & Soon to Be Gravel Racing Icon
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Drew Dillman is a pro cyclist who, until now, has focused on cyclocross and criterium racing. In recent months, Drew has aimed for the fences like Babe Ruth and hyped his plans to catapult into the LifeTime Grand Prix series and become a gravel icon.
He co-hosts the Matchbox and Bonk Bros podcasts and is co-founder of Ignition Coach Co, a coaching company for endurance athletes. Drew races for the Texas Roadhouse team and is a long-time YouTube creator focused on taking viewers inside the nuances of pro crit and cyclocross racing.
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In This Episode:
Drew Dillman Instagram | Website
Ignition Coaching Website
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Andrew Vontz 0:00
Okay. Yeah, you know, I've listened to many Bach bros podcast at this point, I think you will now be the third of I don't actually know how many people are on Bach bros that is it for,
Drew Dillman 0:15
I think, well, if,
Andrew Vontz 0:18
if you look at you have a couple of people who float in and out. Yeah,
Drew Dillman 0:21
I'm not like I'm like, in and out. But I think now I'm kind of in. But it's the original. The original three were Dylan, Adam and Scott. But Carrie Warner comes on pretty often. And then I come on, coming on, like, more and more. Yeah, I get in trouble when I get on that podcast. Yeah, we just, we just like talk about things. And I forget we're recording and I think I think it's just us talking and then I say things that probably offend people.
Andrew Vontz 0:53
Yeah. I don't I don't think that that's true. I've heard heard you all talk about that before. Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing that we're missing right now, I tried to I've had Scott Miguel on here before I was trying to get him to join us. Just to wash dishes in the background. So I think that's kind of one of the big contributions I've heard him make on Bob gross. I've sent him a couple of messages about it. Yeah, that's pretty. Yeah, I've got this. I've got this. Yeah, this high visibility shirt on in honor of Scott's loving honey.
Drew Dillman 1:30
Yeah, man. Funny how many? I got
Andrew Vontz 1:33
material all day, man. He adds
Drew Dillman 1:35
so little to the podcast on paper, but everybody loves him so much that it's like, if we have to have him on the podcast. It's like an it's I don't know how to like, I don't understand. I don't get it.
Andrew Vontz 1:51
I feel like Scott is kind of the Nicolas Cage of cycling.
Drew Dillman 1:57
Exactly. Like the Ghost Rider.
Andrew Vontz 2:00
I don't know, man. He just kind of has like a mysterious element. You know,
Drew Dillman 2:06
he's eccentric. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that.
Andrew Vontz 2:09
Yeah. I've he's the only person I've had on my podcast who's reached out to me to see if he could go grouse hunting on my property. You know?
Drew Dillman 2:18
Yeah, that's yeah, that's Scott. Yeah. Yeah, he's cool. I like anyhow.
Andrew Vontz 2:24
All right. So yeah, I like Scott, too. He's a nice guy. Anyhow, so let's tell me a little bit about how you broke your wrist. You know, you've got the
Drew Dillman 2:38
we're gonna start right there, right.
Andrew Vontz 2:41
Yeah, let's, let's let's just like let's jump in, man. Like let's see your wrist pulled? Yeah. Are they healed? Like, what are we got?
Drew Dillman 2:48
I just got some KT tape on it. Okay, when I ride, I got the brace off. Two weeks ago, the finger is still like, that's all the movement. I can't. Can't straighten it. But I'm working on it. I actually have this thing coming in the mail today called a joint Jack. It looks like a torture device. It it like is flat here. And then it has this thing that compresses it, and it just I twist it and it just like straightens it out, so as to wear it when I sleep to stretch that tendon out. But yeah, it happened at the infamous blue dome crit at Tulsa, which is, I think, pretty widely known as one of the most dangerous crits in the world. In fact, I did a YouTube video and that's what I titled it and got a lot of hits. But I do think that that's a pretty accurate. Like, I don't think that partially that's clickbait. But partially, that's pretty true. And most of the guys who do the race who have crashed in it would agree that it's there's something about that race that is just there's a lot of crashes. And so I got caught up in one of those crashes. And at some point, flying through the air, either my bike hit the ground, or my hand hit the ground or a bike or something. But I didn't get any scratches. I think I had one little scuff on my knee. But other than that, like no blood, no bruising, no road rash, not even a tear in my kit, but I have a broken wrist. So I would take the road rash and all that stuff over a broken wrist because the bone I broke the scaphoid takes a really long time to heal because it gets really poor blood supply. So they went in and put a screw in a week after I crashed and then I was in a brace for, I think seven weeks after that. And then I finally got the brace off two weeks ago. So I've been ramping up the training again for a fall, come back
Andrew Vontz 4:57
some feedback I received from my mom was good. Sometimes we talk about things on this podcast that she specifically doesn't know what we're talking about. So Mom, this is for you. Okay. I know that criterium racing, very popular form of bike racing here in America. But for anyone who's listening who doesn't know what a credit is, it is a multi lap race on a short circuit. They're typically in city centers, sometimes they're in office parks. That's a popular thing in Southern California. And sometimes it's a square loop. So you are, yeah, so sometimes route has will have like four right hand turns, sometimes it'll be a figure eight. Sometimes, like the snake oil. A criterium that we might talk about today, might have a cobblestone section, but it's typically a relatively short circuit. With a lot of turns, people are moving at a high speed and often drew in the races that you're racing in what typically, there'll be 100 plus writers. Is that about
Drew Dillman 5:55
close to Yeah, Tulsa for sure that for some reason, that one attracts a lot of people. Yeah, I think there was over 100 people at the start of that race. Definitely not 100 at the finish, but yeah, it started with 100.
Andrew Vontz 6:10
Yeah. And we broke your scaphoid did you land on other human beings? Or did you land? What was timing like,
Drew Dillman 6:19
like, I mean, I did the video like frame by frame. So I, I tried, you know, I tried to slow down as much as possible, but it's it was with eight laps to go. So the speeds are already pretty hot. So I tried to slow down as much as possible. So slamming on my brakes. And then I think I ran into the person in front of me. So then I ended up like cabling the top of my, like, I was on top of my stem. So I was on the front of the bike. And so eventually, I went over the over the bike, and the bike went on top of me, but then in front of me was and this is from my memory. So not from the video, but I just remember like running into the back of the person in front of me and like trying to like hold on to their back. Just instinct, I guess like to put up my arm and I was trying to so I ended up running into somebody. And then after it was all said and done, I ended up on the very bottom of everything. So at that point, I knew something was wrong with my hand. And I couldn't get the bikes off of me. I think there were two bikes on top of me mine and some other ones. And so I was sitting there for maybe 30 seconds or so before somebody came over and took the bikes off of me because I couldn't get up. So yeah, that's kind of how it happened. I mean, I was on the ground. But yeah, like I said, I didn't get scratched. So I don't know how that happened. But
Andrew Vontz 7:43
you drive yourself to the hospital or did you one of your buddies say to you,
Drew Dillman 7:47
actually, my wife was there, which was a good thing. But she also like, you know, she hates that part of crit racing, especially crit racing. So when she didn't see me come around to laps she's like sprinting to the to the medic tent. And so she gets to the medic tent. And at that point, I didn't know my broke my I'd broken my wrist. I just knew that my finger was dislocated, because it was all all kinds of crooked. And so I had already found some teammates, and they walked me over to the medic tent. And this is funny, the guy at the medic tent. I don't know if this guy was legit or not. He had a polo on that is all. That's all I know, I don't know his name or anything. I walk up and I just hold my hand up and say, I messed up my finger. And without saying anything. He just reaches for my hand and pops the thing back into place. No paperwork, no X, no explanation. I paused him for like one second. It was like, whoa, what are you? Are you about to like, Are you about to, like, do this? He's like, Yeah, we're doing it. And he just started yanking on it. And he yanks on it for like five seconds and nothing happens. And then he's like, maybe it's broken. And then he just starts yanking on it again. And then it pops back into place. And then I almost pass out. And then my wife gets there, and we go to the car and I couldn't do anything that night because it's a night race. So at that point, it's like 10pm So we went back to the host house. And like I said, I didn't know my wrist was broken. So I thought oh, the guy put my finger back into place. It'll be fine. I'll race tomorrow. Like you know, pot, you know, positivity. And so the first thing the next morning I went to go get an x ray on my wrist because it was pretty swollen at that point. And that was when I found that it was broken
Andrew Vontz 9:44
Wow, it's too bad. You didn't have a body cam with you as this was happening. That sounds like pretty compelling content
Drew Dillman 9:49
that Yeah, I know. My teammate was right there and he Kyle was grabbing his phone to record the popping of it popping back into place and put the guy I did it so fast. Kyle didn't even like get his phone out in time. But in hindsight, I'm like, Yeah, you're so right. Like that would have been such good content. But I did have a but I ended up a camera on my bike, but you can't. It's just like a running into the person in front of me. So you can't really tell much.
Andrew Vontz 10:21
What a thrill. Yeah. So that injury is the same injury that Todd AP gotcha had in late April. And then two months later, he's racing the Tour de France. So what insights do you have about him doing what he did two months after the injury?
Drew Dillman 10:37
Um, was it two months? Because that'd be like, Yeah,
Andrew Vontz 10:41
I yeah, I just looked it up.
Drew Dillman 10:46
That's impressive.
Andrew Vontz 10:47
Yeah, he broke it on April 23. And then he was back at the tour more or less July 1. So yeah, about Yeah, he nine weeks.
Drew Dillman 10:55
Yeah, that's, that's impressive. He probably has a lot more dedication and, and motivation in the form of probably money from his team to keep training. So I'm sure he was doing a lot more on the trainer than I was when I when I was healing. To stay in shape. You know, when you're when you're a two time Tour de France winner, I think he Yeah, he's probably pretty motivated. He knew that that was coming up. Whereas me it was like, I knew that the that was probably the end of the season as far as crits. Go, but I am. I am super motivated now to get into the fall and do some gravel racing. But yeah, it's definitely impressive. Because I'm sure he, I mean, unless I don't think there's any. Like, I don't think his bones heal faster than mine. Like, you know what I mean, like, if it was the same bone, it's hard to tell if it was the same break, but mine was just a split down the middle and they screwed it back together. And then I imagined his was similar. I think he had to have a screw in it. He did get his screw in a week earlier than me think he got the screw in the same day he crashed, whereas I had to wait a week. So that probably helped speed it up a little bit, but not definitely impressive.
Andrew Vontz 12:10
What's it like to be back on the bike? How does it feel?
Drew Dillman 12:13
Oh, like awesome. I mean, the day after I had already written a few times outside before the doc had like given me the clear and I was still wearing my brace for the for all the other times, I was just taking it off to go for rides here and there. But just like out on country roads, no, no traffic, smooth roads, so I wasn't too worried about it. And then once I did get the clear to ride the very next day, me and my wife drove to Yeah, the very next day, me and my wife drove to Iowa to do RAGBRAI. So then I was like, doing 8090 mile rides for the next couple days. And that was obviously like the perfect intro back to riding because RAGBRAI is just like, chill riding across the state of Iowa. And it's just a fun time. But now I'm like Full Tilt focused on just some big graphic races for the fall to try to. I don't know, take advantage of people who are probably overtrained and over raced, and I'm under raced. So I'm like super motivated. So I'm hoping that I can, you know, take take that into my own hands and get some results this fall.
Andrew Vontz 13:27
I definitely want to talk, I want to talk RAGBRAI. But before we jump into that, I'd love to hear your take on the state of criterium racing in America today. Definitely, definitely a hot topic and criterium racing, it's it is fun to watch. It's fun to participate in. It's dangerous. It also is especially like on streaming or on TV. It's something that feels like it should be super compelling. Yet when you have that many people on a course, it's pretty hard to catch all of the nuance of what's happening with that without having. I mean, if they could stream GoPro footage or point of view footage from within the race. That would be one thing but just watching a mass of writers with static cameras or even with drones, it's pretty hard to follow what's going on. Right so what do you think like where are we at with criterium racing in America and like, where is it headed?
Drew Dillman 14:22
I think it's pretty good. You know, like when you This is like, I didn't do a lot of the big crits this year, I only did Athens and Tulsa. I only did 1/3 of Tulsa. But from the races that I went to when you're there and again, this could just be the like excitement of being at a race when you're at the race. It feels like it's thriving, you know what I mean? Like people are the the, the the, the sides of the courses are lined with people and they're all cheering and and the announcers are going nuts and the towns are super excited to have us there. and even when I go back and watch the streams, like what they're doing with the drone footage now is pretty sweet. You know, like, they finally figured out how to do like live drone footage, which is like pretty wicked awesome. I remember watching sunny King, and they were like the drone was like right there over the peloton. And as they were turning the drone is turning with them. And I mean, I think that kind of ups the streaming quite a bit makes it a lot more exciting. And you can see a little bit more with like what's happening rather than a stationary camera and the turns. So I mean, it's definitely I don't, I wouldn't say it's growing, but it's definitely not dying. I mean, I think it's still still pretty exciting stuff. It is kind of curious to like the whole NCL thing is pretty. I feel like it's just a huge question mark right now. They've only had one race. There's all this hype and all this talk. And the two teams are racing like they those two teams have been racing all year. But as far as the series goes, you know, it was all this hype. They've only done one race, they've had to reschedule another race, they've had to cancel another race. There's a huge question mark of whether it's even going to exist next year. I mean, it's exciting. And it's cool, but I don't know how sustainable that is. Like why, why try to get like Why try to just go over and above on it just create a really good series and make it steady instead of just something like over the top and it seemed like they tried to go for the over the top. And I just don't know how long that that's gonna last. But I've never been to one I didn't I didn't the team went to the first one. But I didn't go because it was too early in the year. And they all said it was awesome. I mean, like when they came back there like oh, so amazing. And all this and, but for my opinion, watching the livestream, you've got the two NCL teams and it's point based by the end of the race, the two NCL teams have like 150 and 130 points and Roadhouse was in third with 20 points. So it looks just from a perspective standpoint, it looks like there's two proteins and a bunch of chumps even even we looked like chumps out there. And so it's like, Why aren't the legions and the and the accs and the and the echelons like where are all the fast people at that race if it's one of the big series? And I mean, I know that those teams like I opted not to go, but it's unfortunate that that's how it played out, because it's just a weird. It's just a weird dynamic like that there aren't big teams at those races but can't control what other people do, I guess.
Andrew Vontz 17:48
Yeah, absolutely. And as you noted, your criterium season has kind of ended, you hit a few of the major credits, but not all of them. I caught a little 10 I think was this past weekend and the World Championships were also last weekend. And it was interesting to see, I think, Legion and again, if you're not familiar with criterium, racing in your listening Legion is the Legion of Los Angeles is the best team in the United States. A criterium racing, I think they went 123479 A little tin, probably. Right, something like that. I think I think that six of the top 10 spots, which that's good for them, and, you know, just doesn't seem highly competitive relative to the other people in the race. And then watching the World Championships on Sunday on a city center course, that's a circuit race, not a criterium with 50. Turns. World Tour pros were saying this is I mean, granted, I think they'd written 100 and 100 plus miles before they went on to the finishing circuit. But the pros were saying pick, gotcha, wow, they were saying, Hey, this is actually the hardest bike race I've ever done. And visually, it was incredibly compelling, thrilling racing. And they were able to create separation that couldn't be closed, because there were 50 turns on that short circuit in the city center, granted, and it's much harder to get that type of closure in a city center. And there did used to be some races like that in the United States. Like there was the San Francisco Grand Prix for example, in the early to mid 2000s. But I'm you know, I'm curious if if that might actually become a more viable form of racing
Drew Dillman 19:29
like and towns circuit as I just noted.
Andrew Vontz 19:32
Yeah, yeah. Cool. I mean, I know it's really really hard to put on you. You have to shut down to downtown which is almost impossible to do from a permitting point of view. But seeing Glasgow worlds which on paper mean prior to the race, people were like, really like all these irregular road surfaces even watching the race. There are manhole covers all over the place. They're going from cobblestones to bad pavement. There were you know, it just It was a very complex, poorly surface course. But the racing was incredible. You know?
Drew Dillman 20:07
I'd be down for that. That'd be cool. You're talking about like, I'm assuming it would be longer to hopefully. I'm more keen on longer races. But yeah, that sounds pretty cool. I've never even like thought of that. It is way easier. Yeah. I don't know. Close, like one one or two blocks of a street, though, you know?
Andrew Vontz 20:31
Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah, I don't have to actually put on the races. I'm a fan and someone who follows the sport, right. So yeah, I don't have a magic wand. And I can only imagine how difficult it would be to shut off the downtown in a major metro area. And I think that's one of the many reasons criteriums have been the most popular form of bike racing in America, because it's like, yeah, you can just go to an office park in Dominguez Hills in Southern California, where nothing's happening on a weekend. It's relatively easy to per minute. That's what Chris lots at CBR has been doing for a couple of decades now. And as a participant, they're great fundraisers and, you know, from a permitting point of view, relatively easy to do, probably, but just like at a more macro level, what's why his bike racing become the center of your life, you're a coach, you're a pro athlete, you know, you're a full spectrum bike racer across all these disciplines. You pop in and out of the park bros, of course, what's so interesting about cycling to you?
Drew Dillman 21:39
I mean, to go with the title of the podcast, it's hard. But it's fun. It's a and I sucked at all the other sports that exists. So this is a, this is what I ended up on. I mean, I got into cycling originally, because my mom worked at a bike shop, she was an accountant at a local bike shop. So the guys back the mechanics from the bike shop, ended up taking me out mountain biking when I was like 10 or 11 years old and just fell in love with it. I mean, I started out mountain biking for the first couple years and just stuck to that didn't even really, I didn't even know cyclocross existed. And I thought road was the lamest thing in the world. And like 15 years later, I barely touch my mountain bike. And I'm like, full roadie now. But um, yeah, I mean, I think I just liked that I could do it whenever I wanted to. And over the years, I've gotten to go to a lot of places. And, you know, it turns out, I'm not too bad at it. So it's opened up a lot of doors, you know, being able to race in college and getting on teams and getting sponsorships. And not to mention all the friends and teammates over the years, and now even a career. So in the grand scheme of things, I mean, yeah, a lot of my life does kind of revolve around around cycling, but I, I kind of love that. I love talking about bikes. I love talking about bike racing. Obviously, in the bonk bros. It's like all we do is talk about bike stuff, maybe less about the tires and stuff. But when we're talking about bike racing, I'm all about that. I've never been like that. There's people who are like, way into the gear. And I've never really been about gear. You know, I got everybody. I gotta love new bike day and new kitten day. But that that doesn't even compare to like race day. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I like especially now that I'm older, I like the just the long distance, you know, getting out and doing those long gravel races, I don't do as many of them I might be doing more and more of them. But I don't know there's something really appealing about that of like, it doesn't have a crit race is very strategic, like a lot of people say it's like a, like a 30 mile per hour chess game. And maybe that's true. But in a gravel race, it's like the dumbest rates there is it's like, you don't have to turn your brain on the whole time, you just sit in the front group, and you stay there for as long as possible. And if you're good, you'll look around at one point, and there will only be five dudes left. And then you have to figure out how to beat the other five dudes. And that to me is like, a lot more gratifying because I spend like a buttload of time training a lot more than than I think some of my competitors do. And so when I show up to a gravel race, and I actually get to show that fitness off, whereas in a crit, like maybe I crash or maybe I don't have a good sprint or something so that fitness doesn't always show. Yeah, I just I don't know. I want to use my fitness, more in racing. And I think the gravel stuff is probably where that's gonna happen, or, I mean, if there was more road racing, I Do more road racing, but the road racing scene in the US is pretty dead right now. So, it's like, you can either do crits or you can do gravel racing, cyclocross is kind of fizzling out as well. So, to me, those seem like the two kind of options right now, but I don't know if that even answered your question. I kind of just jumped around but
Andrew Vontz 25:24
in with gravel, where have you dabbled? How deep are you?
Drew Dillman 25:29
Well, I got third one time at the mid south, if you haven't heard. Now, just kidding. They make fun of me all the time, because that's like my one good result. I've done the Mid South a bunch of times, because it's, it's fits really well, even with a crit calendar, because it's early in the season. So it's kind of before the crits start. So I've done that quite a bit. I've done DWR California a few times I did. I did the DK 200. But I only did 175 pull the plug. Which was kind of, you know, kind of embarrassing. I could have probably, like taken a nap and still finished, but for some reason I quit. That's about it. Really? Yeah. But I'm hoping to do this. Why did you quit? My right leg stopped like moving. Like I was pedaling, and then it just locked up. And I don't usually cramp. And I'm assuming that that was like a full lockup kind of cramp. And so when that happened a couple times, and I was like looking at my leg. And my brain was saying like, Come on, buddy. You got to keep spinning, but it like, Wouldn't pedal for a couple seconds. Eventually, that was happening so often that I was like, this isn't worth it. And I was already like, in a pretty deep, dark spot at that point. Like I had already quit. And then Amanda Nam and my teammate was like, You can't quit. You have to keep going. So then I kept going and only went like another 20 miles. And then I quit again was like, yeah, no, I'm actually quitting this time. So yeah, I definitely wanna go back to that, and, you know, get some redemption at that race.
Andrew Vontz 27:11
Because that was so much fun.
Drew Dillman 27:13
Yeah, so much fun. I think I was naive. I think I was naive and unprepared that year, because that was the year I got third, the Mid South and the Mid South is only 100 miles. And there wasn't very thick competition at that race. So I think I had one good gravel result at the Mid South. And then I went to the unbound thinking on gravel Pro, and I could probably get top 10. And it's like, it's like a whole nother beast. And I think I was just totally naive to how hard that race actually is. And so I raced way too hard the first 60 miles and then paid for it.
Andrew Vontz 27:53
So how serious are you about trying to get into the lifetime Grand Prix next year?
Drew Dillman 27:58
Pretty serious. The rest of this year, I'm going to try I think I'm going to try to do the rest of the BWI series to qualify for the idea to be able to be WR California this spring, before the injury ended decent. I think I still I think I could have done a lot better had I raced it differently. And then. So if I do the rest of the BW R series, there's three more races, I can qualify for the quadruple crown. And so maybe if I do well in the next three series i or three races, I can maybe end up on the podium for the overall for that series. And then and then I'm gonna go to big sugar and do that because that'll be the that's like the series finale. So really, I'm putting all my chips into that basket because if I can do really well at Big sugar and be like all of the lifetime athletes and prove to them that I should be in the series. I feel like that would be like the the ticket and for next year. Because I don't think I'm popular enough for them to know who I am off of racers like without that. So so maybe yeah, I don't know. Hopefully getting a really good result there would put me on the map. And I gotta beat Dylan. That's
Andrew Vontz 29:14
once you get the hard way, Bob. I mean, yeah, I think you're on all right. Yeah. Dylan as well. Yeah. Yeah, so what? What, how would you embrace DWR differently? What happened and what would you have done differently?
Drew Dillman 29:29
I like oversight myself out about the very first climb, there's like a climb two or three miles into the course. And it's a paved, climb and all the rows, for some reason go super hard up this climb. And when I did that race back in like 2018 at like the halfway point of the race, there was still like 50 dudes in the race. I remember rolling through a town and looking around and it was like a full peloton of riders. And that's why that was well into the race. So I was thinking oh, I Probably sag this climb, and it'll all come back together. And I will have saved some matches for later in the race, because I was so much more focused on the twin peak or double peak or whatever it's called at the end of the race because that's like the race deciding moment. So I was like, I'll let all these goofballs go really hard on the first climb, it'll all come back together. And I will have like, saved some matches. However, it just didn't come back together. So I was in the second group. And I could tell it wasn't coming back together. So I tried to like jump across, but never got there. Ended up. Yeah, ended up missing a turn, which didn't cost me too much. But I did did put me behind a bunch of slower riders on the single track section. So I lost more time there. And then eventually, I synced up with Lance Hayden, who had had a flat tire. So me and him, kind of grind it out. Mainly he grinded it out, and I stayed behind him for like 60 or 80 miles or something like that. But we rode together for a really long time, he finished like he ended up finishing 10th, which is amazing. And then I ended up finishing 18th. But if I had just put myself in that front group, I think I could have stayed there for most of the day, and then just being protected by the group would have saved a lot of energy. But because of I didn't do that on that first climb. I was pretty much it was just me and Lance all day. So I'm taking on way more wind and spinning way more energy to try to catch up.
Andrew Vontz 31:34
So what's your game plan heading into the gravel races that are on your calendar for the rest of the season? Are you going to try to race from the front the whole time?
Drew Dillman 31:41
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, just turn the brain off and stay in the front group for as long as possible. I mean, I'm confident enough in my fitness. I think too. I think the legs are there to like, stay there for a long time. It's just a matter of when, when it gets hard enough, late in the race is when that's like when the race is determined. And hopefully I'm there. That's probably what I'm gonna get dropped. But hopefully I'm there when that starts to happen. Like when when the bombs start to drop. But I feel good enough about my fitness to where I think I can stay in that front group for a long time, even if there's a hard climb in the first five miles. But yeah, definitely just somebody had told me after that race that yeah, in a race like that, when there's that much firepower, you, you've got to stay in that front group. Because that front group is going to roll so much faster than the rest of the race because of the firepower that's there. So that made a lot of sense. I wish somebody had told me that before that race.
Andrew Vontz 32:42
And do you coach yourself? Or do you have another coach coach you?
Drew Dillman 32:46
I'm not the bonk bros. Coach me collectively? No, I coach myself. My schedule. I
Andrew Vontz 32:55
know they give you a lot of feedback. Yeah,
Drew Dillman 32:57
yeah, I coach myself pretty much. My schedule is really weird because my wife is a part time nurse. So she works. Two days, which are pretty random every week. She can make it to where she like she can schedule often enough to where we can make sure she doesn't work when I travel for racing. But during the week, it's like one week, she works these two days the next week, these two days. So my schedule is kind of dependent on her schedule. Plus, we have a two year old. And so my schedule like every week is always kind of getting juggled around. But I've kind of figured it out. And I think I'm in a good spot. And unlike most, I don't want to I don't know, maybe this doesn't. I don't want to sound too like cocky or but unlike a lot of other cyclists, I think I have a pretty good gauge on on, not overtraining. I think that's the biggest thing when you train when you coach yourself is you bury yourself too much. If you're really motivated, do you think oh, I just need to train more and more and more. And I'm always thinking that but I'm also very aware of just recovery and not being okay with skipping workouts because I don't feel good or whatever. So I think I do a pretty good job of like not burning myself out.
Andrew Vontz 34:18
When you look at an athlete like Keegan Swenson, I've had Keegan on here I've had Kristin leagan. On here, of course, have had the world famous Dylan Johnson 47 millimeter Pathfinders on the show. But with Keegan in particular, just his training, the volume is totally insane. And I think a lot of people inside and outside of gravel look at that and think, hey, the wave if that works for Keegan, the way forward for me must be I need to go do 30 hour weeks. What do you think? Keegan's got some better answer when it comes to training volume.
Drew Dillman 34:57
Yeah, but he's got the foundation to Build that off of if you look at what he was doing in college years ago, he was probably doing what I'm doing now in college 10 years ago. So he's built up the training history to be able to do that. What a lot of people make the mistake of is they try to do that without that training history. You can't just jump from 15 hours to 30 hours in one year. He's been he's been building that up for over a decade. So it makes sense that now he's gotten to this level, you can't neglect the last 10 or 15 years of his career and just think, Oh, he's doing 30 hours. That's what you got to do. It's no, he's done. He did 15. And then he did 17. And then he did 20. And now he's up to that 30 hours a week mark, or whatever it is, I don't know. But and I mean, I can see that in my own career. Like, even in the last couple of years, it's been 17 and 19. And this year was like the first year where I'm consistently getting over 20 hours a week, and I'm not dying from it, you know, so it just takes time, cycling is one of those sports where like, you're, you can make a lot of big improvements the first year, the first two years. But then after that, it's just like, You got to be committed for the long haul, like, like 10 years of just putting your head down and training and maybe nothing exciting happens for a really long time. But if you're committed to it, I think in the grand scheme of things, you'll eventually start to reap the rewards of all that training. least that's what I hope.
Andrew Vontz 36:36
Yeah. Well, let's talk about your RAGBRAI experience. What got you interested in doing RAGBRAI?
Drew Dillman 36:43
I did the full thing in 2018. But my roommate all throughout college is from Iowa. And now he lives in Des Moines. So that's the main reason is I get to go hang out with my best buds. And he lives in Des Moines now. So CJ worked. It just so happened that she worked Monday, Tuesday, that week, a couple weeks ago, and that and like, I realized that about a week before and was like so I called up my buddy, it was like, Yo, Is there still room for us to do RAGBRAI because it's like an ongoing thing. Like he's texting me and telling me throughout the year like are you going to come to rag Brian usually I'm like, I don't know, man, like with racing and the two year old and but it was kind of like everything fell into place where we were able to find a sitter for the kid for four days. And then me and my wife, were able to go up there and do the second half of rag Bri. And it happened to be that RAGBRAI was going through their town. So we just met them at their house, and then finished the second half of RAGBRAI with them. So like all the pieces really fell into place. But we did it back in 2018. And we did that was before we had a kid we had just gotten married. And we had kind of said that every two years that was going to be like our college reunion of all of our friends from the cycling team at Marion. So we did it in 2018 we had like a dozen of us all kind of show up and we did the whole week all of us and it's super fun. But that kind of fell through because of COVID so it's we ended we haven't quite gotten it started up but are we haven't quite it wasn't what it was in 2018 As far as the whole college reunion thing, but um, yeah, it was fun to go up there and just hang out with that buddy and just have a good time. It's fun.
Andrew Vontz 38:26
Yeah, and for anyone listening who doesn't know a RAGBRAI as it's the registers Annual Great bicycle ride across Iowa. It's a ride that takes place every year goes from Is it the Missouri River in the west to the Mississippi and these?
Drew Dillman 38:40
Totally don't know, I dipped my tire?
Andrew Vontz 38:47
Yeah, you dip your tire and in a river on I know the one on the east side, I believe is the Mississippi. Wow. That's right. Yeah, I'm gonna have to look at a map after this. But you go from one side, one side, Iowa to the other side. They're usually about 10,000 people officially who do the ride on officially who knows? And how did you do it? Were you bikepacking Like was somebody? Were you hopscotching? Was somebody driving ahead with your gear?
Drew Dillman 39:12
Yeah, we had some my buddy Vance. His little brother was driving the car with all of our bags in it. So he was meeting us and then they were able to find host housing for most of the nights, or at least the two nights that we were there the three nights we were there while most housing I think a couple of the nights they had camped before but they it's like they know some people in the town and they're when they're like, Oh yeah, you can set up a tent in our backyard. And then some people are like, oh, yeah, you can sleep in our basement so we just bring air mattresses and sleep in people's basements is basically
Andrew Vontz 39:48
luxury. Yeah, I did it in 2003. I wrote an article about it for Bicycling magazine. I did. I think I did. I did the whole thing that time and then I also did it in 2008 But same thing someone from our group would drive ahead and knock on somebody's door camp in their yard. Probably not a lot of experiences like that left in America or the world anymore where you can just do that. And there are a lot of at that time, there are a lot of iconic like food truck stops along the route. Were there any of note that you tried to hit up every day?
Drew Dillman 40:23
There's like a famous pork chop guy. Like Mr. Poor thing. It's just called Mr. Pork Chop. So you stop and get your pork chops report shot road. There, I think there's like a, it's I think everything has bacon on it. You go to every single food stand, and it's like, this has bacon, this has bacon like, and it's like the, it's like the last food that I would want to eat in the middle of a bike ride. And that's what you have to eat is like ribeye steaks, and just like terrible food. But there was a PB and J station. And so one day I got a PB and J. But they did have a PB and J with with bacon option for those. Yep. Gotta have it. Yeah. And then obviously, I think beer, I think beer is probably the number one consumed beverage for the whole week. Like the vibe of it, there's people who like don't even drink water, they just wake up and put beer in their bottles like, um, I think that's the rag Bri rag Brightway.
Andrew Vontz 41:30
That's possible. What's the most interesting thing that you saw a RAGBRAI. Because typically, there's no shortage of interesting things happening along the route.
Drew Dillman 41:39
Oh, I was only there for three days. One of the days was super hot. So it was pretty cool that all the fire departments were pretty, like, pretty cool about like, turning on huge, like water sprayers. A couple of them had like swimming pools that they had set up and like they're, they're like, basically portable. It was like a portable swimming pool that they put together pipes. And then with strings and stuff, it was holding itself up. But it had like cold water in it. And they just filled it up with the fire hydrant. So that was pretty cool. There was a lot of little kids like a lot of little kids, I'm thinking a lot of them probably weren't riding the whole way. I think they just go from like, maybe they live in this town and they ride to the next town. But it's pretty cool to see a bunch of little kids out there. Yeah, didn't say anything like super crazy. The cops are really cool. Like the police have to like come through town and like, kind of get people along. So I think there's cut off times of when the bars and stuff can stop selling alcohol because they're like, yeah, like we have to. It's like the police have to keep the people going. Because otherwise people would probably sit there at the bar. And then it's like, oh, we have 50 more miles to ride and it's 8pm. And so then you have like people riding in the dark. So they tried to prevent that by like, getting the getting them to go along. But there's all these different teams, you know, like team, love shack and team drunken donuts or whatever. It's like all these goofy teams are out there riding. So the cops actually had bracelets and they were team Buzzkill. And they were handing out bracelets to all the people that they were team Buzzkill. So they were like they're doing their job, but they're actually like, you know, it seemed like they enjoyed it. A lot of them had like big speakers, which is pretty cool. Like, every. It's like a pretty legit event. Like every crossing that we went through. Police are standing there stopping traffic. And you're talking at 90 mile days, like hundreds of street crossings and hundreds of police officers stopping traffic for this ride. So I thought that was pretty, pretty cool. You know, there are some gravel races that don't even have that like big gravel races, where the traffic is just the right there in the middle of the race and you might get hit by a car. But rag Bri is like they got police officers on every single intersection is pretty cool.
Andrew Vontz 44:16
It's a pretty incredible event, I'd have to say it's one of my favorite bike experiences I've ever had. I'd like to go back and I think for anybody who's listening, you know who's looking for something to do besides go race your bike somewhere? Yeah, or whatever else you might want to do as an athlete. RAGBRAI is incredible. I think it's something to put on the list of things to experience in your lifetime in one way or another. I agree. on a bike.
Drew Dillman 44:42
Yeah, I agree.
Andrew Vontz 44:44
What. So, so as you kind of look forward Drew, we've talked a little bit about the lifetime Grand Prix. Where do you want to take your career as a cyclist and what do you want to do as a human being outside of cycling?
Drew Dillman 45:03
The cycling thing is a good question. I mean, I feel like I'm trying to figure that out like every week and every month. I'm leaving my options open for next year. So I think Texas Roadhouse wants me to stick around and race crits with them next year. So I think that's an option for 2024. And then, and then I'm trying to, I'm shooting pretty hard for the lifetime series to try to maybe get into that. So I'm going to try to do the lifetime series. And then and then if I get in, through that application, at that point off to start making some decisions about what I'm going to be doing for next year. But yeah, like I already said, I mean, I think those longer distance races just suit me, and my physiology, my training a lot better. So I'm not bad at kart racing. I'm just like, I'm not gonna be Justin Williams in a sprint. And most of these races come down to a sprint. And so in the few races where I actually get to race, the way or in the few crits that actually suit me, I do well, like snake alley, and though and there's another one that weekend, the Quickstart crit, basically any crit that has a hill, like crybaby Hill is always a big one. For me, unfortunately, I didn't get the race because of the wrist. But those are like the few crits that I'm really excited about. Whereas if I were to do the gravel route, I might, you know, I feel like every one of those races kind of suits me better than a lot of these crits. So it's not that like, you know, I don't know, I think I'm just trying to figure out, Where can I use my skills the best to get the best results. And so I'm starting to think that maybe that's on the on the gravel. But we'll see. I've only been racing, Chris for a couple years and Roadhouse bill, Pat Roadhouse does have a very strong belief in me, and they believe that I can keep getting better and better. So that's nice to like, have that support from from some experienced guys who've been racing Chris for a long time to like, they think they like they think that I have what it takes to be a good kart racer. So that's good and reassuring. But I don't really know. But as far as like life goes, I mean, first and foremost, I think I live my life pretty strongly with, I just want to glorify God through all that I do. Whether that's bike racing, or being a dad, or being a husband, or being a coach, with every aspect of my life, I just want that to be God honoring. So I mean, yeah, I've been a Christian and since high school, and that's just been a huge part of my life. And it's, it's, and I wouldn't like I think it's the best part of of my life, I think, you know, it gives me the confidence to do things like if I break my wrist, and I miss half of the most important part of the season, I'm not like, crumbling, because my identity isn't totally wrapped up in cycling. It's totally wrapped up in my faith. And so I think that's definitely the biggest part of my life and kind of everything I do is through the lens of that. But yeah, I mean, I really, I really want to be a good dad, now that I've got the two year old daughter, that's life changing, for the better. If that means like, I don't go as high in bike racing as I might have, which I don't think that that's even going to happen. I don't think having a kid is affecting my bike racing. If anything, it's just helping because it's like, life is more enjoyable with a kid than without a kid. But I really want to be a good dad, you know, I don't want I find myself thinking a lot of like, I don't want my daughter to grow up wishing I didn't race my bike more. If that's going to, if that's going to be what happens, then I will have, you know, where I will regret like racing bike too much because I want to spend time with her and be a good influence on her love her well. But I mean, at this in the same. In the same line, though, I think bike racing is is and coaching has given me the opportunity to be at home even more with her. You know, like, if I had a normal job, I'd be gone, like, every weekday, you know, working. But with cycling, I'm home a lot of the days of the week. I'm going out for training, but like in the mornings and evenings and on the days I'm off, I get to do a lot at home with my family. And so I'm super grateful that I've got the flexibility to be to be that kind of dad that's kind of at home with my kid a lot. Yeah, and then I mean it mission coach Coach is growing and I think that's a huge part right now is it's still in the growing phase me and Dylan started that about two and a half years ago. And so we're just constantly looking of like, how do we keep it? How do we keep growing it It's how do we keep just being a really good coaching company? And so that's like a continual process as well. We've got 15 coaches spread out across the country and two in Europe. Um, so. So I mean, those coaches are a lot of like, why the company is so exciting. When we started the company, I didn't realize like, how fun it would be to work with other coaches. Because when you coach by yourself, you just kind of get into this system of working with you and your athletes. But yeah, the funnest part about ignition has been working with the other coaches and seeing that them get excited about coaching. And there's a lot of I mean, most of the coaches who work for ignition are very involved and like invested in the company of like, they want to see the company grow and thrive as well, which is pretty exciting to have that kind of support from all coaches. So yeah.
Andrew Vontz 51:00
Do you see more gravel athletes coming into structured training and seeking out coaching?
Drew Dillman 51:09
Yeah, I think that's a huge market right now. Mainly, just because that's where a lot of the excitement is right now. So yeah, I just think that, that's what I don't know, it's just like, people want to go out and do these adventures on their bikes. And that's kind of what gravel racing offers. So a lot more people are willing to travel to go do like a big VW are a big unbound race versus to travel all this way for credit, you know, or something like that. So you see a lot more people targeting those big gravel races. And, and the good thing for a coaching company is those gravel races require a lot more training, because they're usually really long. And it's like they require more training, but it's like, this doesn't sound bad, but like, it's very less strategic. Like, if you're trying to do the unmanned 200. Literally, you need to know how to ride for that long. And you needed to know how to eat while you ride for that long. And if you do those two things, you'll probably have a pretty good race at unbound. Whereas if you're trying to race or race it crits crits are way more dynamic of like, you got to be able to handle your bike and you got to be able to like prepare ahead of time, like how you eat leading up to that one hour crit is really important. And then the whole race dynamic with teammates like to way harder to, like train somebody for a crit than for an unbound 200. Because unmount 200 is like, well, you just gotta go ride your bike for hours and hours and hours. But I mean, we get all of that we get we get the full spectrum and are kind of what we do at ignition is. We try to like do our best at pairing athletes with a coach that fits them. So all of our coaches race pretty high level. And so we've got gravel racers, cross racers, mountain bikers, roadies, create racers, track cyclists. So if somebody signs up and they want to do gravel, then we're going to try to pair them up with one of our more gravel experienced coaches, if somebody signs up for mountain biking, coaching, then we're going to pair them up with somebody who's got a lot of experience mountain biking. And then a lot of times, that's even better, too, because then a lot of times our coaches have done some of the races that the athletes have done and can offer specific advice on Oh, I've done that race. And you need to know about this, this and that, you know, during that race, so we tried to do a really good job at like making that initial connection of athlete to coach with as much you know, in common as possible so that it makes the coaching relationship ship even better.
Andrew Vontz 53:51
And you produce content for YouTube as well. And you have your own unique style. How did you kind of define that style and arrive at Yeah, these are the kinds of videos that drew makes.
Drew Dillman 54:04
Well, some of my videos are straight up rip offs of Dylan's because, like, I really respect his style of videos. But unfortunately, when I do Dylan's videos, they tank like they just don't do good, like people. There's obviously a lot of people who want to hear about science based training advice, but for some reason, when I tried to do it, nobody watches those videos. So I've landed on this other style of video where I raced with a GoPro and I just kind of throw up my thoughts and I've I've come to find out that a lot of those what I think are just thoughts are actually like really good coaching advice. And so a lot of people like have come up to me at races and have said, Oh man, like really love your videos. They're super helpful. I've learned a lot about racing by watching them and I don't know if I mean it gets a little bit of me was was trying to do that like through those So basically what I do is I put up the race video and I trim it down to like a one hour crit, and then maybe 15 minutes. But then I put in little, when something happens, I try to explain kind of what is happening and why it's happening through words on the screen. So I don't, you don't hear my voice in these videos, which I really like, because I hate being like, on video. So being able to do it without me getting recorded is way easier. And so, so yeah, I guess those videos have been more helpful than I thought. And those videos get get way more views than the other videos I do. So I'm trying to go more on that route. But it sucks when you break your wrist and then you don't race for 10 weeks, because then you like I don't have any footage to do those videos on. So I've been mounting GoPros on my teammates bikes, and doing it that way for the last couple of weeks. But uh, yeah, I'm super excited to do some of these races this fall, because I think some of these bigger gravel races will make for some very good videos, because when you race for six hours, a lot more happens. And so you just have to make sure you get the good stuff on on video, because unfortunately, the GoPro battery doesn't last six hours. So I have to like reach down and you know, press the button whenever I think something exciting is gonna happen. Whereas in a crate, I can record the whole thing because the battery lasts throughout the whole crit. So I don't have to worry about it. I just turn it on and race. But yeah, I really enjoy that style of editing. It's a, I don't know, it's exciting to see all of the people watching the videos and stuff and to see it actually kind of growing.
Andrew Vontz 56:42
Yeah, they're great. I enjoy watching them. I like all the tips. And then conversely, also when you see videos from people, and in particular, there are a number of people now who make content where they're in the middle of the race and like they've got the GoPro or whatever, like they're in a pack and they're like talking to the GoPro. I always wonder what is it like to be? I mean, I'm not a pro racer. But if you're like in the pro field and vegan cyclist is there talking to himself to his camera, while you're in the middle of the front group, I should probably have mine. Yeah. But like, what is that experience? Like for people around you? It does seem to be a very common thing now. Yeah,
Drew Dillman 57:20
it kind of irks me. Because they're so focused on like recording themselves that they're going to do that in the middle of a race. I like that mine is is a little bit more subtle, like all I have to do is reach out and press the button. But I've been in like when I did the DWR California this year, I was in a group with Jeremiah bishop, and he's literally, we're in a group, and I'm thinking I'm like freaking out because I'm like, Oh, we might not catch the phone group. And I look over and he's like talking to his phone. And I'm like, Dude, what are you doing? Like, we gotta catch the front group, like, stop YouTubing right now. Like, there's a time and a place? And I don't know, I just think. I don't know, I think it's silly. But I mean, I get it. I'm trying to do the same exact thing, just in a different way of like, there's this huge opportunity, YouTube is a huge opportunity. And all you have to do is look at Dylan to know, like, this is what this is like, this is what like gets gets me going is like on paper. Me and Dylan are like, he'll say it himself. Well, right now. He's a little bit faster than me. But on paper, we're basically like the same athlete like same height, same weight, same FTP, we both suck at sprinting. I mean, obviously, we have some like strengths and weaknesses, but like on paper, were like very, very similar. And yet look at like how successful he is. And look like I'm not saying I'm not successful, but there's potential. And I think the difference between him and I is that is his YouTube channel. And so him with that YouTube channel just opened up opened up so many more opportunities. And um, so now I'm just thinking, like, I gotta figure out how to do that. So, you know, I'm figuring it out. I don't have it totally figured out yet. But it's definitely growing pretty quick, which is nice. And I'm already starting to see some of the leverage that it's helping to, like open up doors and stuff. So you know, the days of like, just going out and smashing bike racing and getting sponsors are quickly coming to a close. So if you don't have if you don't have some kind of like pool with content. It's hard. It's getting harder and harder to find sponsors or teams and support. And that's just the state of where bike race sponsorship is right now.
Andrew Vontz 59:45
Is there anything new or different that you've wanted to try or experiment with when it comes to content or you just want to go deeper with kind of the GoPro and sights about what's going on inside of the race?
Drew Dillman 59:57
Yeah, I mean, I think I kind of have those Videos figured out, you know, like, race with the GoPro, get as much footage of the race as possible and then do the editing of like putting in slides. So that's pretty straightforward. And I like doing that. Yeah, I'm like, I mean, like the the coach and me is always thinking about how do I create original training, teaching content. So basically what Dylan does with his channel, but how do I do it in a way that is totally different from Dylan, but still teaches people about training. Because there's all kinds of like really neat topics within cycling and endurance training, that I find myself like reading books about and constantly thinking about, and I'm like, I want to teach people about this cool stuff. You know, like, I got super amped up on this idea of confidence. A couple months ago, I read like a couple chapters on confidence, and then ended up doing all this research on confidence, which is a lot more like psychology based than it is physiology based, which is a big difference between his videos in mind. But how do I like do it in a way that's not just copying him? Last week, a guy that listens to the bonk bros. He He's like one of our, like, weekly listeners who we don't know his name, but he goes by playing bikes. He totally called me out on this on Instagram. He likes screenshotted, one of my videos, and then he put at the top, the Dylan Johnson starter pack, only 1995. And then he pointed at all the stuff and it was like, basically, he was just making fun of me because I copied exactly what Dylan does. So part of me is like, How can I do it, but do it in my own original way. But I mean, Dylan's like, there's so good. It's like, it's like, I'm like the Burger King of videos like, Burger King doesn't do any research. They just do whatever McDonald's does, because McDonald's has already done all the homework. So I don't know, I'm, I'm always thinking about that. Like, how can I? How can I teach people about coaching and training in my own way? And I haven't figured it out. I have no idea.
Andrew Vontz 1:02:15
You're right. You'll be the flame grilled version.
Drew Dillman 1:02:19
Yeah, that's right.
Andrew Vontz 1:02:23
Yeah, you're the Whopper. All right. Awesome. Well, Drew. Thanks so much for taking time to chat today. This has been a blast.
Drew Dillman 1:02:29
Hey, I'm curious. How did you start the I don't I don't know a lot about podcast or are you to be quite on? How'd you? How'd you start this podcast? Like, I love I'm not gonna lie. Like when you reached out to me, all I had to do is look at the title choose the hard way. And I was sold. I was like, what a good title. So I didn't even need to like, know a lot about you or anything. The title had me sold. I was like, that's such a good title. So I don't know. I just had a my own curiosity. And maybe for some listeners like hat. Yeah. How did this start? And what's the mission? And what is it?
Andrew Vontz 1:03:08
Yeah, totally. I choose the hard way is a podcast about how hard things build stronger humans and how hard things are the most fun things in life. And I started I started my career as a journalist. So I spent about a decade working exclusively as a freelance journalist for outlets like Rolling Stone, the Los Angeles Times Outside Magazine, dozens of other publications, and I wrote about many of the world's most interesting and highest performing people. So I've interviewed everybody from Samuel L. Jackson, Daft Punk, Kanye West. of other,
Drew Dillman 1:03:44
you're not just some dude doing a podcast. I mean, you're like, Wow, no.
Andrew Vontz 1:03:50
Like this is yeah, I used to get paid. Yeah, I used to get paid a lot of money to interview people and write about them. And then I met a former Navy SEAL, who started a company called TRX. He, I wrote about them, I wrote one of the first stories that was ever published about TRX. And Outside magazine, I think 2005. Eventually, he persuaded me to leave journalism to go work for him. I became the head of content there. And then after that, I ended up going to Strabo where I was a communications executive. I spent seven years there. And yeah, helped the company grow to more than 100 million users reach profitability. I ran a team that was on in six different countries, four different continents, oversaw media relations, public relations, public policy, a bunch of other stuff. And while I was at Strava, I loved what I was doing. And I also really missed, specifically the part of journalism where I got to satisfy my curiosity around Just like meeting people who did amazing things that I wanted to learn more about. So I started this podcast almost six years ago now, because I just really felt like something was something very specific about that aspect of journalism was really missing from what I was doing. Like, I love my job there. I love being an executive. But I was more in the background, I felt like I was more of a bass player than and what I really am is more of like a, like a lead singer or lead guitarist like shredding. Yeah, and, you know, I think I loved like both with Strava and TRX. Part of what I loved about them was I felt very deep mission alignment with what those companies did, and the way in which they helped make people's lives better. With TRX. That was, you know, democratizing, high, you know, world class, high performance training for everybody. And we also did a lot of work with the military. And I knew that the work that we were doing on like, specifically, like we launched a tactical suspension trainer, it became standard issue in the Marine Corps was used in every branch of service. And I knew that Special Operations units and every branch, we're using it, so it felt good to know that something I was making, was helping the general public, it was also helping people downrange, hopefully, stay safer, because they were more mission fit and mission ready. So you know, and with Strava, just helping people stay motivated and inspired and connected other people doing things that help make them healthier and feel better was really important to me. And with the podcast, I just wanted to help more people just reach beyond their sense of what might be possible in their life. And to realize that people who do amazing things deal with all the same bullshit is everyone else, they're just applying themselves in a slightly different way. I mean, like, what I've realized over time is no matter what people have, no matter how good they are at something, no matter how much money they have, it's all the same set of problems just with different stuff. So to really boil it down. So I think a lot of people have a very limited sense of who they are and what might be possible for them in life. And my aspiration with this podcast is that someone might find this and think there's more possible for me, than I might have thought. And that's why this podcast, it's not really about your five things you can go do. I just like to hear stories from people. I like to share them with my listeners. And I hope that it makes people's day better and inspires them to be you know, a better person for their family at work, to try something new and different and just like to take the risk of doing something that feels daunting, because being comfortable does not usually add up to happiness.
Drew Dillman 1:08:01
That's that's, that's good, man. I remember watching that. Yeah. Oh, what's that documentary about? The free solo? I forget the Alex. Something. Yeah. He Yeah. Alex Honnold. You've probably you've probably interviewed him. Have you?
Andrew Vontz 1:08:19
I haven't I haven't. balladeer on here, though, who's climbed Ketu and Everest without oxygen.
Drew Dillman 1:08:28
Dang. But when I watched that, that documentary for the first time, I don't know anything about climbing. So I'm like sweating. I'm like watching that documentary in like sweating. Right now like nerve racking it is but on his way to the climb. He's talking to the camera. And he's talking about like his his girlfriend and how she, she's a lot more of like, you know, happy comfy. And I remember him saying nobody's ever accomplished anything being happy and comfy. And I was like, that sounds really harsh. But it's so true. And that stuck with me for a long time. Like, yeah, nobody accomplishes anything being happy and comfy. Maybe not happy? He said, Absolutely. No one knows the internet or something. But
Andrew Vontz 1:09:16
yeah, I think people have to find what you know, they have to figure out what is their frame of reference for what they believe might bring them joy and happiness. I also think people's sense of what that might be is often there's no correlation with that and the things that actually will make them happy and bring them joy. I think that people often think about achieving things, they think about stuff. And it might be different for everyone. I think what I've realized over time in my life is the thing that actually brings me personally the most happiness and joy is the ability to be present to whatever is happening in my life in that moment. Whether it's Something really painful, something that does actually bring me happiness or joy, or it's something really mundane. And, you know, that's, that's something I think about a lot. And like with training, for example, for me, if I can go out and do a training ride, or I can wash my dishes or whatever, with no music on no podcasts, and I'm just present in that moment doing whatever the thing is, that's when I feel like I'm in my highest state.
Drew Dillman 1:10:29
There's this thing, it's interesting, interesting concept called the arrival fallacy, which is like, we make these big goals of like, I want to win the World Championships. And when you actually do that, and win the World Championships, you actually go into this huge like phase of depression, because you don't know what to do after you've accomplished that big goal. And it's like this huge eye opening experience of it's not the goal of like winning the World Championships that actually makes us happy. It's the process of getting there the everyday grind, and a lot of people, I just find myself yeah, I find myself thinking about that a lot of like, people don't realize how, how enjoyable that process is of just grinding it out every day. Having those goals is definitely good. You need those. But winning races isn't the isn't the end all be all for sure.
Andrew Vontz 1:11:24
Yeah, and I think having that mindset and being able to access it, I think it's a very slippery thing for almost everyone. So I think being in that having a process orientation, and being fully present to what is actually happening, I think, is among the most challenging states that you can create in life. And I think it's like a very worthy goal to try to find whatever it is for each of us that enables us to access that. And also, you know, to be ambitious, and to reach beyond what we think might be possible to do big things. But as you said, it's not about like getting to the big thing. It's about what's the community you build, how do you love and support the people around you? How do you mentor other people? How do you lift up people who have less? How do you take care of other people? I think those are all incredibly important things to do. And it's not just about, you know, do I have 2 million Tiktok followers? Or do you know, hundreds of 1000s of people listen to this podcast or whatever, like you don't really have control over that. You do have control over? How do you treat people around you? You know, how do you help people who need help? How do you help yourself? Are you kind to yourself? Are you kind of other people? And, you know, those can be challenging things to do, but I think they're really important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Sweet. Cool. All right. Well, thanks again Drew and well will be my I have a production team, they'll be in touch with you. We'll let you know when this thing is going to drop. I don't know if you had time to fill out there's a guest Forum and the calendar invite but if you can do that, it gives you a place to drop in your bio and photos and all that stuff for promo so if you can do that, that'll really help me and then we'll put this thing on blast and let you know when it's gonna drop.
Drew Dillman 1:13:25
Sweet. Yeah, that works.
Andrew Vontz 1:13:28
Alright, cool. Well, thanks, man. Enjoy the rest of your trip.