Iz King: From Wall Street to Pro Athlete & Creating a Life and Career on an Unmarked Course

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Iz King left Wall Street to pedal for gold on gravel roads and trails across America as a pro cyclist in the LifeTime Grand Prix. She played D1 soccer for Columbia University where she was the team captain, traded equities for UBS then got into racing triathlons while completing her MBA at UCLA.

So what leads someone to step off the fintech yellow brick road to take 165-mile weekday rides from Santa Monica to Ojai and back? Let’s find out. Iz’s story is complex and we get into the unexpected bumps and broken backs she has encountered along the way.

Choose the Hard Way is a podcast about how doing hard things is fun. Please help more people find this podcast. To do that, just hit subscribe and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this episode with someone you care about.

Go to choosethehardway.com to sign up for the newsletter and if there’s someone you think would make a great guest, DM @hardwaypod.

Choose The Hard Way is a Big Truck Production. Anthony Palmer at Palm Tree Pod Co is the producer and editor and Emily Miles is head of digital and marketing. Jeffrey Nebolini is the world-renowned designer behind our brand identity and the Choose the Hard Way logo. The content for this show is created by @vontz.

In This Episode:

Iz King Instagram | Website | LinkedIn

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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn

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  • Andrew Vontz 0:00

    She'll be fantastic. Yeah, I've listened to a I've listened to most of the podcasts that I believe exist with you. So I'm, oh, I like to I like to do research I. Yeah, I don't know what you know about me. But just to give you like a bit of background information, I started my career as a journalist, I did that for about a decade, I wrote for outlets like Rolling Stone spend the Los Angeles Times outside, I did do stuff for all the cycling magazines, Fox Sports, a bunch of other places. And broadly, I wrote about people places and things at the limits of human experience. So that was everything from doing stories about like Daft Punk, Kanye West Samuel L. Jackson, to going and doing adventure travel stuff, and all kinds of other things. And then I was head of content at TRX, then I was an executive at Strava. And now I'm in the middle of starting another tech company with another form of Strava executive, which I'm not talking about publicly at all. And and I've been doing this podcast for the past six years. So that's broadly like that's a little bit about me to give you some context.

    Isabel King 1:13

    I use Strava. Yeah, I've, I've,

    Andrew Vontz 1:14

    I've heard that's, that's awesome. I like Strava, too. But yeah. And you know, so this podcast is about how hard things build stronger humans, you obviously do a lot of hard things. And I think it'll be really fun. I think there are a lot of areas of who you are and what you've done, that. I haven't really heard you talk about much that I think would be fun to dig into if you're open to it. And yeah, I always ask guests, if there's anything that you're like, hey, this is a hard No, I definitely don't want to talk about blah, blah, blah, just tell me we won't talk about it. And cause some time sometimes I've said that to people. And then afterwards, it's like, actually had a guest recently. We got through the podcast. And then like four hours later, he was like, hey, actually, I'm in the middle of getting divorced. And like this, these three details I brought up. I don't want to have them in there because it somehow was related to his wife was like, that's cool. But no, yeah, it was a bummer for him. But I'd rather just know upfront so that we don't have to step on the landmine?

    Isabel King 2:13

    No, I'm pretty open. I most likely will cry if I talk about my dad. But that's par for the course. Yeah.

    Andrew Vontz 2:19

    I get it. I get it.

    Isabel King 2:22

    Yeah. Other than that, like I generally I'm pretty open book, social media and things like that, which I think generally has been pretty successful. So keep going with that.

    Andrew Vontz 2:31

    Yeah, for sure. But that might actually be an interesting thing to talk about. I feel like to be a professional athlete in any discipline now, and particularly in the world of endurance sports, you just you have to be on top of your social media and doing it constantly. And that isn't always actually a fun thing to do. I don't know if but I'm curious, like, what is it like for you to have to constantly think about and mediate everything that you're doing? And do that part of the job?

    Isabel King 3:01

    Yeah, I think it's been a really interesting kind of transition into this. I like to joke I moved to Los Angeles and became an influencer. And that scares the crap out of me. But on the other side, I'm also like a professional athlete, and they in the social media side is part of it. For me, I consider myself to be super fortunate in that the social media side, I'm pretty open with it. It's not super curated, I don't have to do filters. I'm like, pretty much just like, say what's in my head and post and, and I'm lucky that that has been kind of successful. With that, I definitely do treat it like a job. In that I'm, I consider myself pretty good with answering messages and engaging with people on on the Instagram and things like that, just because I do think like with a social media following you are in a position of power to either inspire others or help others with their questions and things like that. So for me, I do, it's almost like answering emails, you're like, Okay, we're gonna go through the DMS I'm gonna put my NormaTec legs on, and I'm gonna spend the next hour like answering messages. And so it is an interesting side of the job that I never really would have expected, I don't know, 10 years ago, five years ago. And so it's been interesting to kind of mediate that and also balance the like, I'm a pretty social person, but for me, sometimes it's not fulfilling to spend hours interacting with strangers, basically. So you have to also remember that even though I've talked to, I don't know, hundreds of people that day that I didn't actually like have any real social interaction because I rode my bike by myself and then I answered, you know, people on Instagram and for me, then I have to find something else fulfilling to kind of fill the the actual social void, which is an interesting thing as well.

    Andrew Vontz 4:53

    How do you fill that social void?

    Isabel King 4:56

    I think it's a balance. It's friends. It's um, Podcast, it's calling my family. I'm far away from my family. They're in San Francisco Bay area mostly. So facetimes with my sisters and her kids, and then I have to try not to just be like, okay, when does my boyfriend come home like, play with me hang out with me, because like he's been at work all day at a regular job and had social interactions. So you definitely have to figure out, like, how to see friends and and if you can get a friend to go on a ride or do a training ride with you as well. That helps.

    Andrew Vontz 5:29

    And so you're in LA, right? Which are you on the west side or the side? I'm on the west side. So I live in Santa Monica, here in Santa Monica, right. And the writing, of course, is excellent there. As everyone knows, you have all the canyons, you have the PCH, which also can be like, That's can be pretty fraught. And then you have world class group rides like to see me ride the Montrose ride Rosebowl all those I lived in LA for like 14 years. These are local, right? Yeah, totally. But so do you tend to stick to the west side when you're doing your writing?

    Isabel King 6:07

    I do. It's a funny kind of conundrum where when your backyard is, you know, hundreds of you know, different options of climbs and things like that. Like you could go down to Peavy and do that climb, or I could go east and do the big climbs in the mountains over there. But the idea of either writing junk miles or getting in a car to go train, I'm kind of like, it's the like, why, why fix if it's not broken. But the few times I have gone to the side for rides like those are real mountains over there, like those are bigger than what we have on the west side. And so it is good to switch it up. But with that, like I know it lasts well you have to plan like where's your water? Like? How hot is it gonna be? How cold is it gonna be? Are you gonna, like broil or gonna get snowed on like, the weather extremes when you get to like, you know, eight 9000 feet like those are those are different than when you're just going from like, you know, sea level to 3000 feet over and over again.

    Andrew Vontz 6:58

    Yeah. And when you go that high, when you get up into like the Mount Wilson territory, there's always the danger that that like someone on PCP is on in a car chase going down the Angeles crest highway or something. I mean, I bring that up, because I've been up there before when that's happened.

    Isabel King 7:16

    Like it's, it's an interesting I, of course, I'm very lucky to be able to ride a lot of my rides during the week in the middle of the day, when there's not many things. And it was funny. When I was here, and I was in business school, I post photos on Instagram, and people are like, where are you and you're like, I'm not that far away from our school. But you would never go here unless you have a fancy Porsche or you have a bike. Like you just wouldn't. And so it's an interesting, like, the only people that you see out there either other cyclists or like fancy cars, which is very funny. You know,

    Andrew Vontz 7:46

    ironically, I was reflecting on this today, as I was preparing for this interview, and I was thinking about some of the biggest talents and professional cycling, who are women have have kind of similar past years where they're very high achieving in finance, or in tech, where you know, venture capital, which of course, is like more on the finance side. And then they leave that career. And then they become a professional athlete at an age. That's like relatively late to become a professional athlete, yet they make that transition. And it's such an amazing thing. But there are a couple of examples of that, right? Like I've had Kristin and Faulkner on the podcast, who also got started later. I can think of a few others. But it's such a massive shift. And it's taking. I'm curious for you did that feel like a big risk when you walked away from what you were doing after having completed your MBA to pursue becoming a professional athlete?

    Isabel King 8:47

    For sure, absolutely. Like it's an interesting you. I kind of up ended my life in New York to move to Los Angeles to go to business school. And then from there, the path was supposed to be FinTech or it was, you know, or even at the time, like I just started riding bikes, I remember I applied to like an internship at Strava. And I was like, maybe I'll like, get to work in the bike industry. And then suddenly, I had qualified to be a pro triathlete. And I was kind of looking at the marketing side of things and saying, like, okay, the athletes now that they have, like, they're great, but they don't, they're all of their sponsors are within, you know, the triathlon world or things like that. And so I was kind of saying, like, if I can approach it from a different angle, if I can maybe use the business side to grow a brand and do kind of the professional athlete thing and a new way, maybe that might work. And my mentality was like, let's give myself a year. I graduated in 2019. And then the pandemic hit and so it was kind of an interesting like, Okay, does this year count? Like I'm not spending any money really, I'm like, I have rent and maybe some food and that's it. Like I'm not traveling. I'm actually not burning cash as much. So maybe I have a little bit more runway. Can I use it? Can I build this into something real within the neck? So here's a 2021 was kind of my first year and got some some brands to take a chance on me and then from there have been able to build it. But it's definitely kind of scary when you're graduating from business school and you're like you have this track, you now have gone to an Ivy League education, you worked on Wall Street, and then you now went to one of the top business schools in the world, like, it's much easier to say, like, I'm gonna have a steady paycheck, I'm gonna go work for a FinTech, I'm gonna work at a desk, and I'm gonna ride bikes on the weekend and have the money to buy everything that I need and be happy in that way. And for me, it's always an interesting balance of like, do do the job that pays you the money, to be able to go on the trips and have all the hobbies that you want, or do you do the job that's truly a passion, and probably is a pay cut from what you would be doing at a desk. So that will for me, it was the balance. And now, I consider myself to be super fortunate in that I've been able to build a brand and build partnerships in order to have a sustainable lifestyle where I'm riding my bike for a living, which is kind of absurd to think about. But I'm pretty proud of that. And I do know, like, there's always a shelf life on being an athlete. And so with that, like you said, I'm a little bit older. And I actually just did an interview with Shimano, which was titled like, it's never too late. Which as a, you know, 27 year old if that's the first time you've ever clipped into a bike, like is it too late to be a professional athlete as a soccer player? Absolutely, yes. As an endurance athlete, no. And so I think it's fun to kind of prove that and and go into it and see what I can do here with the knowledge of like, at some point, I will go back to working at a desk, or do doing something else that's not competing at the top level of this work.

    Andrew Vontz 11:42

    What did you believe was the maximum thing that would be possible for you to achieve when you did make that decision to become a full time professional athlete?

    Isabel King 11:53

    That's a really good question. I think my goal originally was lineup at the biggest races in the country and see what I could do. For me, my first trip, my first gravel race was unbound. And it was, I went into it kind of as this, like, no one really knows who I am. But she's wearing bright orange. And you know, who is this person, and I ended up finishing eighth. And from there, I was kind of like, maybe I can do this. And I think it's been really interesting to go from there. And at the time, I didn't have a coach, I had never done race, I finished, you know, eighth in the top biggest race in the world. And then now I'm sitting here two years later, and I've gotten faster. And I know the course is better. And I am finishing consistently further down the rankings, which is an interesting way. Like the sport has gotten so competitive in the last two years that it's interesting to say like, I am really fortunate in the way that I timed it. If I had joined, even in 2022, or this year, like you finish, I don't know, 12th and 15th. And, you know, these are your results. I probably say this is really awesome. And I'm fast, but I'm not for me. And so I have I have had to balance being like okay, there's suddenly more women and more competition than there ever has been, where's my place in this sport? And can I still balance wanting to win all these races, and then also coming to the like, okay, in a bike race, this 4000 people and one man and one woman is going to win. So it's not like a soccer game and a soccer game, half the people on the field are going to win. And so for me, like balancing the expectations of I want to train as hard as I possibly can, and be the best. The best I can possibly be with also, maybe not like maybe a top 20 Is is good,

    Andrew Vontz 13:47

    right? And to have that feeling of being someone who is all and you're fully committed, you're training harder and smarter than you ever have before in your entire life. And what you just shared, it's the same thing that I've heard from a number of professional athletes who are competing and mixed surface or gravel racing, which is, hey, you know what, I average 2030 Watts higher in this race than I did last year. And I am 10 or 15 places down in the ranks. Right? Really, what am I doing wrong? I

    Isabel King 14:20

    was doing so much faster, right? Like it's so funny. I think Crusher and Natasha is an interesting, it's a relatively smaller race within the lifetime Grand Prix. But I was listening to patients podcast and he was like if the top 15 men that finished this year would have won the race every single year prior to this year last year. So you're like that kind of speaks to the caliber of both female and male side of like, it's just like, like, record breaking across the board and how as kind of a top performing athlete do you wrap your head around? Like everyone's faster than they have ever been? And so are you but you're still not getting the results that may be your training for,

    Andrew Vontz 15:01

    does that shift for you how you approach your training and your mindset going into the events?

    Unknown Speaker 15:10

    Yeah, yes.

    Isabel King 15:12

    As an incredibly competitive person, I really, really don't like the feeling of, I'm showing up to just complete this just survive this race. And but then on the other side, I have the way that I have built my brand, none of my sponsors are or partners are with me, because I am going to win necessarily like, I mean, hopefully, they would be happy for me if I won, but all of them care about who I am as a person and the story that I've told and kind of be inspiring other people to get into the sport and hopefully make it more inclusive. And that's something that is really, really important to me. And I think I have to take a deep breath before these races and say, like, I really, really do want to win. But on the other side, like, if someone is at that race, because they saw me do something hard, and they were like, I'm going to train for this race, and I'm gonna show up, and I'm going to do it like that, for me is longer lasting than a good finishing time. And so you have to take a step back and say, try your absolute best and rip some people's legs off. And I'm never gonna give that side up. But also with that, like there is a bigger picture. And I think it's pretty funny, like, I'll be out on the course. And, again, Crusher, and the gesture was not a great race for me. But the amount of people that within the race were like, Let's go is how are you doing? And I'm like, Not good, not good. But like just the, the interactions. As I mentioned, like the social side, for me, you say, you know, those strangers that I'm in, you know, interacting with on Instagram, those are real people on the other side, and a lot of those people come to the races, and then I get to meet them in person. And that, for me, is super fulfilling. And so being able to, like meet someone be like, Hey, is like you're doing great, I'm doing my best. I'm like, Can we ride together? Like Absolutely. That part, like the kind of team aspect of it within an individual sport, is really, really important. And I think the more that we can kind of like come together as a gravel community, or a cycling community is really important. Because in the end of the day, like we're all doing something that's super, super hard. And it doesn't matter if you're a pro or if it's your first time ever, like we're all going out there to do the best that we possibly can. And that is is more important, I think, than the result,

    Andrew Vontz 17:31

    whether it's Crusher and the touch, or some of the other events in the middle of all of that. And I can tell like you're a super optimistic person, as you noted, you're high, you're highly competitive. And I mean, just look at what you've done in a very short period of time. It's, it's pretty incredible. And remarkable. And is there space in that? Do you feel disappointment? Or do you feel anything that that starts to drag you down a little bit?

    Isabel King 18:00

    1,000%? Like doubt, it's, it's the like, should I just be an influencer? Like, it'd be way easier. I can just like, ride my bike around and post selfies and, you know, why am I flogging myself with these threshold intervals and things like that? I think those thoughts definitely creep into my mind, like, you feel a workout. And you're like, why? Like, why am I doing this. And I think at the end of the day, like I went into this saying, like, this has a shelf life, and I'm not going to do it for very long. So so take advantage of the fact that your body will do this, and will respond to the hard work that you put in and remind yourself that like me against myself, I am getting faster, I'm getting better with nutrition, I'm still learning like, I'm still relatively new in this sport, or at least I feel new. And so what are the lessons that I'm learning? And how do I then share those with others, so they don't have to learn them, you know, learn it themselves. But definitely, like the doubts creep in for sure. I think like a lot of people, myself, maybe included will go through their career without having ever won anything. And then you start to say like, do I just race smaller races? Like is it really like, I just need to go get a win, I could do that. You could go race something smaller and just be like I needed to stand on that top step. But for me, that wasn't the goal is to be like the best I can possibly be against the best and not the best I can be against like the local, you know other few people that showed up to that race.

    Andrew Vontz 19:34

    When you think about when you have been at your personal best in a competitive environment with professional cycling. What race or moment do you consider to have been the highest expression of who you are as an athlete?

    Isabel King 19:49

    It's an issue. So I think VW or California is my favorite race. It's kind of the closest to what mimics what I do in my training. It's so Hard and has rode and it has mountain bikes, but you're on a road bike with, you know, monster truck tires and the biggest stars you can fit on your road bike. And I always do relatively well those races. I finished fourth my first year ever did eight. And then six last year when I slashed my elbow open, because someone hit me from behind. And that was honestly like, as painful as that was, that was one of the like, biggest challenges of putting your body through this. And maybe you should probably stop because you're still dripping blood six hours later into a race and I ended up having to get 10 staples in my elbow and the scar will be with me forever. But again, it's funny to say like I still finished it because I fought it in that race and I ripped my elbow open and was actively losing blood and I still was able to like push through one of the hardest races of the year and that for me like it's weird to say, but I'm really proud of that. I think when the ER doctor told me that if I was a man, I would have passed out or died before the finish line. I was like let's go that's all I need. And then this year, like this year, BWI was in second place when I slashed my sidewall of my tire and then did the whole lifetime plug it doesn't plug but a tube and flat that too but another tube in you know, blah blah, blah. And I still finished fourth you were like okay, you yo yo for 20 minutes of doing flat stuff. And I've been the girl that's back further where you're like, how did that person finish in front of me? She had like 7000 flats and like, she still beat me and so for that moment, I was like wait a second, I got to be that person that truly felt so good that other girls behind me like rode their hardest the whole time with no mechanicals and I was still like in front of them and I think that's an interesting dynamic of like, okay, maybe I do belong here like yes, it wasn't my day and yes, I had a mechanical but like I can I can do this and so there's little glimpses where were like wait a second maybe I am like BW er is always interesting because it's for me the first big race of the year and I normally do pretty well and so my year starts like this and then you go like and you start going to these like rolling gravel races or like sheer Watts a kilo climbing races which for me neither are great. I like to say like the harder the conditions the better make it hot make it you know dicey make it sketchy. Because I tend to flourish when it is super super hard.

    Andrew Vontz 22:36

    When you tell when you were doing when you were doing that torn sidewall Hokey Pokey it be WR What did you feel like in the moment?

    Isabel King 22:46

    Like panic? sheer panic of like, can I you know, I'm out of tubes can I want like, Can I run Can I you know, get any old triathlon self back and can I run in my road shoes to the next you know, aid station that's a mile ahead and ran out to the mechanic it was like anywhere else come pretty. In the moment, I would like to be much more like calm, cool, collected, I think when I slashed my elbow up and like a volunteer on the side, like gave me a mask because it was still 2021. And I like to, like tie the mask on and I got to the stage and I was like five miles ahead. And I was like anybody have duct tape. Like, I was still in third place at the time. I was like, we got it like we got to do this. And so actually, later in the year, the guy who ended up like he did a great job he actually put gauze on a didn't listen to me and put duct tape on. He came up to me and he was at another race and he was like, Hey, is like I just want to say Hi, how's your elbow doing I was the guy that takes you up. And I was I was so thankful for him being calm in that moment. So it is an interesting how do you even though it's an individual like sport, if it if that happens, you at unbound or somewhere where you're like outlet truly out in the middle of nowhere, like I'm gonna have to be more calm than I was at either issue that happened at b2b Or were you just like, Okay, take a deep breath. How do you fix this? How do you put a new tire and get your tire back on and things like that. So it's an interesting when you prepare for these races, you prepare physically and you do all the training, but then you also at least for me, like I will go to my bike shop and put my tire back on and practice doing that because if you slashing tubeless tire, it's actually really really hard to get your tire back on. If you have to put a tube in. So that is someone that's relatively new. Like it's funny to say, but I got to practice it.

    Andrew Vontz 24:40

    I mean, I did that this year before I did recipe Tita I got out I got out of drill, and I was about to change my tires anyway, I've actually never had to plug any of my tubeless tires ever so I was like I better a better practice. Right? Totally. So if you're gonna put in I mean in your profession. Show athletes so the stakes are even higher. But yeah, it is interesting if you're going to put in all the time and training, mental preparation, need to spend some time doing things like cutting holes in your tires, and plugging them but I don't know what you would do with a torn sidewall. Like, what's the pro tip there, I used to just put up like a folded dollar bill on the side of the tire

    Isabel King 25:22

    is really good if you don't have $1 Bill, gel wrappers are awesome, like shout out to the Morton gel rapper that got me through the last 20 miles of DWR. So those are pretty good. I think my favorite story kind of along these lines last two years ago, doing unbanned Everyone was super scared that cam worth was doing it like crazy athlete, you know, ENEOS bla bla bla bla bla World Tour Tour de France. Like, I think I've asked him four times because he would flat and then like seven people would be around him like fixing his flat. And I was like, it's nice for him work that people stop and help him. But like in the world to where you don't have to fix your flat. Like he was lucky that people knew who he was. And were like, yeah, let me help you. But like on the fourth one, I was like, This is honestly like my favorite entertainment of the race. Like go ahead, flat, go ahead. And so it just shows like, these races truly are. You have to be self sufficient. Unless you're, you know, in the world tour, in which case people will help you, which is nice. And again, that speaks to the global community where people are like, I get to help him with hell. Yeah, I'm in.

    Andrew Vontz 26:29

    That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, that guy, he gets around, right? Ironman ads, gravel racing. Yeah, he's, he's everywhere. Pedro Bay. When you go to start a race, and you're on the starting line, what is your mentality? Is it? Let's see what happens today? Is it I'm definitely going to win the race. Like, where are you at on that continuum?

    Isabel King 26:54

    I think it goes, it goes different ways. I think I show up to a BW or California and you're like, the goal today is to win. And I've been, you know, at this year's race, like I was leading the race at one point, and that was a new feeling for me. And I was like, okay, you know, let's go like I've trained for this first 10 minute climb, I know what to do. I've written the score. So bunch, other races, it's control what you can, and whatever you can't control, like, roll with it. I think for me, the biggest change in my training has been the beginning of these races start so fast that it used to be like you kind of rolled out for the first you know, 10 whatever miles until there was like a decisive factor. And then people started like making a selection. Now you start at 30 miles an hour as fast as you possibly can go for it doesn't matter if it's 200 mile race, like the first two hours of unbound will be the hardest two hours of your life. And so it doesn't matter how fit you are for for our 12 If you get dropped in the first two hours, and so I've switched my mentality of like the goal, like the goal of going into steamboat is next weekend is stay as far forward as I can, like that's the goal. Because as soon as those group forms, it will get easier. And then the group's kind of spread. So no matter if you're pushing the same power as the group in front of you, you just kind of like yo Yos, and the gaps get too big for you to close them. And so I've switched did have like little goals within races, where you're like, Okay, the first two hours is a big goal of mine. And then outside of that, like fueling well and finish it and being able to push at the finish line is really important for me. So I think like you take into these, if you take a learning mentality into these races, you're like, Okay, what did I do wrong last year in this race, how can I do that better specifically? And then if that results, you know, get you a better result than great, amazing, that's a win.

    Andrew Vontz 28:56

    At a race like unbound where, as you mentioned, the first two hours might be the hardest two hours or feel like the hardest two hours you've ever written. We're looking forward to the race this weekend. Do you have a script prepared? Or something that you tell yourself when that elastic starts to snap? Or when that voice in your head says Why am I doing this?

    Isabel King 29:18

    Yeah, gosh, yes. I think the first thing is like, just 30 more seconds. Like everybody's hurting 30 But like, it's too hard for everybody. In this moment. No one's coasting. Like, it's hard for everybody else. It's pretty funny. I am very obvious when I'm suffering. My breathing gets really really heavy. And I've actually done some like, YouTube videos where people are like, wow, make sure you have headphones in. It's it's very, like obviously I'm comfortable. So people will be like is Are you okay? And you're like clearly no, I'm not okay, but I'm not going to fake it. I'm just gonna like try and hold on to the wheel. So that's my like, kind of ridiculous beside that's very obvious, but I think the internal monologue is I don't know, if you take the name of this podcast, like, it's a lot easier to stop pedaling, it's a lot easier to give up, I think like the, what we put our bodies through is a privilege to be able to do it. So if you think about it that way, like there's

    Speaker 3 30:24

    a lot of people that would like to be there, not necessarily like in that specific group in the race, just like generally, I think it'd be talking about like, the privilege of being able to push your body and raise your bike. Like that, for me, I will try to never take advantage of that. Or take that for granted. Because I've seen it get taken away from people. Whether it's injury, or old age, or sickness, or truly tragic accidents. And so the ability to be in that moment and say, like, this really, really sucks right now. But on the flip side, like people would kill to be in my position. And so maybe I can push a little bit harder, if that makes sense. And I think like, That, for me is really important to remember because in the moment, it really doesn't feel good. But to remember that, like, whether it's grief or anything like that, like that kind of suffering is really really shitty. And then like kinda we get to electively put ourselves through. Like, that's awesome. In comparison, like that physical pain, I think, like, I went through months where it was just like, No, I'm like, empty inside, I don't have energy to go really do anything besides off, pedal my bike and try not to cry, and you're like, and how it gets to be here with my like, my legs are burning, and my lungs are burning. And this is really, truly like, I don't know, I don't even know the word for it. But it's different. And it's like something that we're really, really lucky to do.

    Andrew Vontz 32:26

    Yeah, as I thanks for sharing that I completely agree with you. And I think that's such a valuable perspective and one that so many people like including myself, like I think it's so easy to overlook, whatever you have, there are people who don't have it, whoever you are, right. And like the fact that, like, we're alive, we get to have this conversation, we were embodied consciousness is we have legs with which we can go pedal bikes, right? Yeah, I think it's true. Yes.

    Isabel King 33:03

    You, you realize that, especially when you get injured, like I saw take for granted, you know, being able to run and then I broke my back in 2019. And you're like, Man, I forgot. Like, I never really realized what the joy to just like run after a loose ball or like hustle to class when you're like, No, I gotta walk because I know broke this bone. And the feeling of like, coming back and building back into running for me like before, it was like, running hurts, like the blah, and then you get something taken away, and you really value it. So I think with with cycling, the goal is like don't ever get to the point where you resent it. And it's easy to burn out and think like, this is just this is a job and I have to go ride my bike. And I think it's really important for me to remember like I get to go ride my bike and just that switch of mentality of like, I get to go train, I get to go push my body. And I think that maybe goes back to the the question of like, do you ever doubt yourself when you're not winning? And it's absolutely yes. But if you if you try and switch your mentality to this is a privilege I get to go do it's maybe a little bit more motivating in that way.

    Andrew Vontz 34:18

    Absolutely. And you mentioned you broke your back. What happened? We can't sorry. We can't just throw that out there. This Yeah, this has gotten great. This is a good conversation. And it could Yeah, I like honestly like so many things are coming to mind. For me. Yesterday was the anniversary of the death of one of my best friends and who he completed 18 Iron Man's he's an amazing person. Aaron birbee. So that's, that's on my mind today. And just so many things. recently in the news was cycling You know, people in the gravel community and then yeah, other people like just getting killed run over by cars, which is something that I personally think about every time I go out on a ride on my bike. And, you know, I tell my kids, I love them. I give them a kiss. And they don't know like that. I'm like, I'm actually thinking about that. But it is something I think about all the time. But to but to go back to your broken back that you tried to. Yeah, so casually, you broke your back. Like what went down?

    Isabel King 35:38

    Yeah. So I generally have learned that I have a pretty high pain tolerance. I think when I found that's what we're finding

    Andrew Vontz 35:43

    out today. Yeah.

    Isabel King 35:46

    The takeaway. So I was on a run, and I suddenly my lowest I broke the sacral bone, which is kind of like the winged portion law of your back was on Iran. The doctor literally, like it just started hurting. So I went to the doctor, we took x rays, they said, your your bone is cracked. I was like, Wow, do I have like really bad bones. And they're like, nope, like just really, really tight hips. So my hips had shifted my pelvis. So it was twisted. So when I was running, it was putting like, an extreme amount of pressure on that bone. Enough to crack it, which is pretty crazy. I also found out when we're getting those x rays, they're like, when did you break your L five? And I was like, Oh, I don't know. They were like, well, you clearly like at some point in your life, you broke that bone, like, and it's healed now. And I remember I was like, oh, there was a time I was like, I don't know, I slipped. I was wearing these stupid slippers in my house. And I slipped and I landed on my back really hard on the stairs. And I was like, that was probably it. But like, oh, it just hurt for a long time. And so it's a funny, like, goes back to your elbow or your you're like I got to be careful and things hurt. Like it might actually be something real.

    Andrew Vontz 37:02

    That's wild. So your Gosh, I'm just thinking about how often people talk about how you know, like, you probably have like really tight so as muscles and like you need to do mobility. But it sounds like sounds like

    Speaker 3 37:17

    you're telling me like yoga is like a real thing I should do. Yoga is not just like boring.

    Isabel King 37:26

    Wish that I liked yoga. Yeah, it's pretty well, I think. I also think about it a lot. Like when you watch the people on the Tour de France, and they are like, trying so hard. And they're at the absolute limit, like the moment when you're getting dropped on a bike ride. Like I am so curious, like, I was a psychology major. So like, what's going on in people's minds is super interesting to me, like, what's the threshold of like, I know, my pain tolerance is really high. But what's the threshold in which I give up versus they give up versus the guy on the group ride gives up? versus my competitors give up? Like, at what point are you like, this is too much, and I must get dropped right now. Or I must slow down. And I don't think that like scientifically, there's a way to measure that. It's just everyone's limit. But I would be so curious if there was a way to find out like, at what point do we give up? If that makes sense?

    Andrew Vontz 38:18

    Yeah. Definitely. And no, I think that in all of sport, it's such a huge if not the dominant factor. And when people win or lose or keep going is that when do people tap out? Right?

    Isabel King 38:36

    Totally. And I do think another aspect of like, why do you ride? Why do you push like that? Does it gives you an advantage, it gives you something you know, to push for? And I think if you say what do you line up for? What's your mentality? Like? If you if people ask me, like, what should I do is my first race I'm like, have something in your mind that when it gets really, really hard, you can look to that and say, This is why I'm out here. Is it because you sacrificed time with your family to train? Is it because you sacrifice resources to be here? Is it because you hopefully not but it because you lost someone and they would love to be at that race instead of you? Like whatever it is that you have in yourself that you can say, it's gonna get really, really hard and I need to go to something in order to push myself past that.

    Andrew Vontz 39:23

    Yeah. And when you originally set out to become a professional athlete, I think before that your first race is triathlete. Is it correct that your first race was an Ironman?

    Isabel King 39:41

    So it was gonna be it was well, it was gonna be Hakka. I signed up for the Okay, I got a bike. I had signed up for the Hawaii Half Ironman, I immediately broke my collarbone. I hit a tourist in Sausalito. She was okay. But I broke my collarbone again with the high dollar bones broke my collarbone like rode home. When my dad was like, Ooh, the adrenaline's about to wear off. Like you should probably take a shower and like get clothes, or they have like regular clothes on. And I was supposed to fly to New York on the red eye that night to move out of my apartment because I was gonna move to business school. And I was like, well, we have movers coming, my mom handed me like to Advil, and I got on the plane with a shoulder that really hurt. And then I got X rays the next morning in New York City. And they were like, Oh, you broke your collarbone. So that's another in kind of wild story. So that was my intro to biking that was like three, three weeks into getting a bike. So I couldn't do the Ironman or the Half Ironman that I originally signed up for. So I signed up for one that was two days before I started business school. And I guess a week before there was the Donner triathlon, which is in Lake Tahoe, which goes up over Donner Pass, that was like an Olympic distance triathlon, and I won that. And again, you're like, great, I kind of liked this sport, like I just, I just won my first race. That was awesome. And so then with that, I flew to Boulder, did my first half Ironman, and then flew back to Los Angeles and still had like, the Sharpie number on my leg and the Ironman bracelet. And so you show up to business school, like in your in your business casual, but you still have like, very obvious indicators of like, this girl's kind of a weirdo. She likes endurance athletics, and I really was so new into it, but if that's the first impression that people get, like, that's the brand that you kind of have, and with that, kind of built it through school. And it's interesting to look at like within the tribe or within the triathlon world, like I was the kind of nerdy business school student and then within the business school world, like I was the like, endurance girl that was going to show up to class with her goggle marks on because she just came to the pool or like, you know, she was going to do a, you know, for our bike ride before, you know, we all went to the bar that afternoon, things like that. So it was an interesting juxtaposition of like, depending and I think it's again a way to market yourself it's like depending on what world you're in, like what is your differentiator which was kind of initially how that kind of the idea of marketing like I started to wrap my head around it of how do you go into this either triathlon or gravel world? How do you differentiate yourself? How do you find a niche that people aren't doing? Maybe? And fill that in?

    Andrew Vontz 42:26

    I want to come back to that first I have a follow up question about your wreck and Sausalito through there having read through the times myself, and I bet many of my listeners have is as well or perhaps have been there as a tourist. I want to know where exactly did this wreck happen? Number one. Where are you? Okay, all right.

    Isabel King 42:50

    Let's know what's number two? I'll do both.

    Andrew Vontz 42:53

    Okay, number two is where you want to try bike.

    Isabel King 42:57

    Thank God no, at the time I was on $1,000 felt f4 I was like this is the nicest bike ever. Oh my gosh, it's so fast. It's carbon. And now I look back and I just gave it to a friend who's just getting into cycling and I'm like this bike does wonders. It may not look like a lot but it got me where I am today. I was not on a triathlon bike. I did my first you know half Iron Man's on that bike and I still to this day like it was when you start like it was age group starts. So I as a 27 year old female would start behind the 32 to 20 whatever the older men the like kind of hard old men and passing a all kitted out. 32 year old male on an arrow everything bike on your little felt out for being like nice job like that was truly my favorite part of triathlon. I was so great. And they would always like kind of grumble as you pass by you're like, oh, yeah, this is good. Crush corner in Sausalito. So there's that T intersection, I guess if you're going towards the city, there's intersection where it's you're kind of most of the way through but those restaurants kind of on both sides. The light had turned yellow. I was already in the intersection. And so I was looking to my right to make sure no cars were going to start going if anyone was gonna go early, and a little family of Swedish tourists started walking. And I remember I looked forward and I was like, Mom, Dad child, and like hit my brakes. I yelled the Mom Stop walking. So like if she had kept moving. I was gonna actually make it in between her and her child. I did not I hit her. She wasn't actually at that high of a speed. She had the most dramatic part. She was holding this glass lemonade. I remember it so vividly. And it like shattered everywhere. And so everyone that's brunching in Sausalito is like, Oh my God. And so it caused this like total scene. But we went to the side I gave her all my information and I never got a call from At the Swedish Hospital or anything like that, so she apparently was fine. So I hope she's doing well today. I think she was just random. It was, but it was again, it was my intro into, like, take your time, like take your time average speed on a bike doesn't matter. Like go slow through Sausalito, I like to joke that like if you're riding over the Golden Gate Bridge, like there's an inverse correlation between how high your FTP is and how fast you like to go on the bridge. Like, the slower you are, the faster you rip the bridge. And the faster you are like, the more secure you are with just like relaxing on the bridge and getting home safe. So lessons that you learn kind of as you as you go.

    Andrew Vontz 45:44

    Yeah, I think if some people could teleport, they would teleport somewhere might teleport Mount Everest or somewhere? Like I think a lot of yeah, a lot of cyclists would just teleport past that whole section of the ride. Dropped themselves. Like they dropped themselves into cacio or something, I think or maybe they even go point res. I don't know. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. So what was the crucial moment when you decided to leave armwarmers behind and walk away from triathlon?

    Isabel King 46:20

    It was, I mean, it was COVID. It's an interesting kind of serendipitous moment where you say, I had been, I don't know, it was like three months after graduation. And I did one no professional triathlon. And I was so so last out of the water. They're like, yeah, you can make up a certain amount of time on the bike. But there's only so much time like nine minutes is really hard to make up. So in COVID, eyes focused and switched to focusing on just cycling, like that was always kind of the goal. And I didn't see because I hadn't done any cycling races, like, even though I got really fast, and my power numbers were really good. I talked to a few pro teams, and they were like, This is great, but you've never like actually raced your cat five, so we can't just like have you on our pro team. And so with that, the focus kind of switched the off road, like racing always intrigued me. I like the idea of you know, get dirty get dusty, like Arrow isn't everything it is, I mean, it's becoming more now but just like kind of the Mental Toughness side of the longer endurance races. And it's interesting. Yesterday, I did a big training ride from Santa Monica up to Ojai, and then back. So it was like an eight, eight hour ride, like 165 miles, hundreds of and that ride for me and COVID it was this ride yesterday was with the same two friends that had invited me to go on this ride in COVID. And that was my longest ride ever. And it kind of sparked this joy in doing really, really kind of wild things. Like if you sell someone yesterday on a Wednesday and I go ride my bike for eight hours. Like I jokingly I was like, I want to go get lunch in Ojai. And you're like, Yeah, people do that they jump in their car, and they go get lunch in Ohio, and then they drive back and it takes them probably an equivalent amount of time. But like, for me it sparked this idea of like your body can truly do really crazy things. And yes, an Ironman is absolutely insane. And I went to Kona, last year just as a spectator, and I was blown away by like just the caliber and the hardness of it. But I do think the arrow is everything. No drafting, like you know, by your speed kind of thing for me was not was not part of it. I like the the world of mountain bikes and gravel where it's maybe it's still high barrier and cheap. And maybe it's less all about how nice your bike is and more about like the mental toughness and the grit of it. And so that I am, I'm thankful that COVID kind of gave me a moment to step back and say, You're really bad swimmer. So maybe if you start on the same line as everybody on the bike instead of nine minutes behind them, like you might have a chance to actually be good at this sport.

    Andrew Vontz 49:14

    Did you write a business plan for yourself?

    Isabel King 49:18

    I didn't, maybe I kind of like wrote it in my head. But I didn't write out a formal one I probably should have and I might have done this a little bit better if I had. But I think it was interesting. There was a time in 2020 where things were not really there was still no not not much hope of coming out of it. It was, you know, September or you know, you were kind of like, and I was ready. I don't know. My mom was looking at me like okay, like, what's, what's the plan? Like? Yeah, what is the business plan? You've you've gotten really fast and Strava Yo memes are great. And you know, you've done some crazy rides. But how do you turn this into something that's actually like monetizable. And I ended up like using the business school, I reached out to people on LinkedIn like, and said, like, I'm either thinking about getting a job or thinking about doing this, like, do you want to partner with me? I made a PowerPoint deck. I was like, here's who Isabel King is, if you partner with me, like, here's the things that I would do. If society doesn't come back to racing, like, here's the challenges, the FK T's, the multiday things that I want to do. And I think that was super helpful and like, kind of getting the wheels spinning in a, in a way. So I didn't have a formal business plan. But I definitely did lean on the business school aspects of like, okay, I know how to kind of pitch myself or pitch a business. And if I treat myself like a business entity, how do you get people to buy into that as investors basically?

    Andrew Vontz 51:03

    At that point in time, how big was your social media following?

    Isabel King 51:08

    Like, 2000 people, it was very small. It was, I mean, it's still is still a lot of people. But I do think it's funny now because I still I forget that I have like, a larger following. And it's funny, I had to like ask my sister, I'm like, is it okay? If I put like your children on my story, because it's more like, it's more people than just like my friends and family at this point. And so you do, I share a lot. It's funny, all of my closest friends are kind of like, so we know what you're up to get you have my like day to day and like hilarious, like, things that I think is, you know, funny little anecdotes and things like that. But it has been interesting, like I have kind of purposely tried to grow it just from if you can, again, like if you can build a platform that hopefully does some good beyond race results, if you hopefully can use it. I don't like to think of myself as an influencer. But if you can use it as like, inspire others or set some precedent for you know, you can be fast, but you can also be friendly, and maybe be like a little bit more of an approachable Pro. Then Then That, for me, adds adds value beyond just the race result.

    Andrew Vontz 52:26

    Yeah, definitely the reason I asked that question, as I was listening to the back catalogue of other interviews that you've done, and early days. Yeah, I mean, it's it actually wasn't that long ago. Like I said, You've done a lot in a very short period of time, hats off to you. And you went out, you became I'm assuming that within the LA cycling community, that if you're at that point in time, if you're going out and taking a bunch of CRS Q o M's, people within that community likely knew who you were, and you became somewhat noteworthy, I would think, or you had some level of notoriety in the local cycling community. And then I was thinking about I was curious if you had a business plan, and then I was thinking about, okay, how do you truly achieve product market fit? What is the total addressable market for the product that you're offering? And it sounds like, you know, you had you had proof of concept with your keto MC ours, you had not yet really like at that point of time. You hadn't really done any gravel racing, though, right?

    Isabel King 53:31

    No, my first gravel race was June 2021. So I did a lot in the pandemic, like I was super thankful I did. Kind of a three day I called it mountains for medics, I wanted to try and raise money for the usea health care workers. So I did a three day 112 miles and 12,000 feet of climbing each day back to back to kind of mimic their 12 hour shifts that they were doing. That was helpful for me and kind of saying, like, how do you use a bike to build you to make it bigger than yourself? And I was super fortunate for that. But again, yeah, like, if you say, like, within the LA cycling community, like I was relatively well known, and then how do you build that beyond that? Is is an interesting guy, you know, challenge.

    Andrew Vontz 54:19

    Yeah, but you did it. But I would say, though, that the the sponsors who backed you at that point, or who saw your deck, I'm sure it was a great deck. Actually, I'd actually like to see, I don't know if you still have. Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's almost like you were the startup you created a pitch deck. It's almost like you were a precede company going on raising around and some people saw the potential and what you were doing based on the social proof you had from these different things you've done that's it's all quite interesting. And it's working out, which is super cool. Yeah. And so did you. Yeah, I mean, you've said a couple of times, like hey, There's a limited shelf life for people doing this type of thing at the outset. Did you just want to, like get to next and see what happened? Or did you have this sense of okay, I'm gonna get myself this much runway. If I don't get to point x by timewise, then I'm out. How did you think about it?

    Isabel King 55:17

    Yeah, I think it was, it was one year initially. I think graduating from business school with zero income is interesting from definitely a joke that my career counselor was like, is we love what you're doing, can you not put your salary in our database, like the data and the numbers and the graduating salaries, like that's a real thing for business school, like those stats matter. And so I had like in the databases entrepreneur, which now actually like, it kind of came into, like, into fruition, but at the time, it's that that void of like, okay, we're going to do this for a year, like, I have a runway financially that I've saved from working on Wall Street that I can use, and then we're gonna have to make more money. And so with that, like COVID, again, kind of like, it gave me time to take a step back and say like, what do you actually good at? What do you want to be doing? Like the bike was always my favorite aspect of three and triathlon? Anyway, so leaning into that, and then like, who are you? What kind of brand can you build? So with nothing really happening in COVID, like, that year, then turned into, like, let's see if in 2021, like I got at the end of 2020, I got, I signed with Canyon, and was able to kind of like that in a way. Like, I still think back on it, you're like that gave me like the confidence to say this might work, right? So I've had now I've had a company buy into me, and then that kind of bought me a little bit of extra time. And funny enough, my contract with Kenyan was go get Strava QM, like, that's how I pitch it, I was like, I will go, you know, I can be paid to go do that. And that was how it was going to be initially. And then I showed up to unbound and they were like, what is that again, she actually might be kind of fast in a non Strava world. And so with that, then was able to build off that and get a few more companies within 2021 to take a chance on me. And then as of last year, and then this year, like have built it into a full portfolio of brands that I'm super proud to represent. But again, it was kind of like, give yourself a year and then you kind of like, okay, I got like I got a nibble. Like how do you and I can see how people like when you say, Oh, I've been working on my startup for X amount of years, you're like, I can see how you go down that rabbit hole of like, you get someone to believe in you and then it gives you just a little bit more time and then you get someone else to believe in you and advise you like a little bit more time. And with that I did truly I felt like that where you're like, Okay, you know, there is a clock and and it's a funny, I'm not great at rest days i True. I really think that I have a coach specifically to be like rest is like I will ride myself into oblivion because I think like, I otherwise would be sitting at my desk from nine to five, if I'm lucky, like Wall Street hours were like six to seven or eight, you know, like it was I would be at a desk otherwise. So why shouldn't I be working riding my bike that time as well. And so it's an interesting, when you have a ticking clock you feel this like, Okay, we gotta hustle, we got to do something like answer your emails, train, like get better figure out like how do you push yourself and make yourself worthy of partnerships. Which is interesting. Which I will say my, my coach is not doing a great job keeping me well, he's doing a great job. But I looked at my Strava today, and I'm over a million feet as of two days ago. So I was like, that's not bad. That's like, we made it, you know, halfway through the year.

    Andrew Vontz 58:55

    You Yes. And I mean, given I've actually I've been thinking about this a lot specifically because I've heard you talk about this specific point on a couple of other podcasts. And I think it can be super hard, especially for highly competitive, motivated and super Alpha people to particularly within professional sports, because so much of the job, it's rest in recovery and being able to absorb training, right. And like that's actually I mean that's such a crucial part of the job. Do you struggle with that with holding yourself back and just like stopping and taking that Monday on Friday off so you can absorb all that effort and go to the next level?

    Isabel King 59:42

    They're really they're really hard. I'm getting better at it I definitely am. But a lot of the times it's a it's an interesting when you this goes into I guess more of the mental side of it but when you put like a lot of physical exertion to something And then you slow down and you have to you have to sit on the couch and you have to, you know, have that time where you're not doing something physically, like, a lot of the What am I doing with my life? Like, am I doing enough like all of that floods in? Yeah, so I'm not good at it. And I think like

    Speaker 3 1:00:25

    a lot for me. My dad died when he was 64. Like, he was the fittest, healthiest everything and like he said, just like a saber toothed Tiger got to his brain. That was his way of saying like, he had brain cancer. And I'm 32 right now. So like, you think about that, if I'm halfway done, like, Am I doing it right? Or even? Like, if I'm done, you know, I get hit by a car tomorrow? Like, will I have done enough to be remembered? Or have I made a difference in this world? And I think like, those are really scary thoughts to think about, and it's not helpful. And like, you're like, I must sit here on this couch and like, slow, purposefully slow down in order to be able to do your job. So yeah, breast days are are rough. But I think it's all again, like all good things.

    Isabel King 1:01:39

    Because it's really easy to get into a routine and just be like, write your bike, post yourself on social media, race, your race, like the, like, get into that. And so I think like trying to keep the bigger picture of like, what are you doing? beyond your own self? What are you doing to make this world a better place? Even if it's in a tiny community of cyclists of stretchy spandex wearing people? Like, how do you how do you make it a better place?

    Andrew Vontz 1:02:11

    Yeah, um, so I'm sorry for your loss. And I think, you know, I mean, that's, that's, that's heavy, of course, and it sounds like it, it really circumscribes your notion of, of what is enough, like, what is enough to have done today, and this moment, with your training with whatever it is that you're doing? And as you and maybe it's not even possible to do this, because it sounds like, you know, you're trying to get the very most out of every day, which is, you know, that's a very worthy pursuit, and something we should all try to do. When you think about the long run. And whether it's what you continue to do, as a professional cyclist, or beyond that, like, what else is out there that you're wanting to achieve in your life? Or that you'd like to try?

    Isabel King 1:03:09

    Oh, that's a good one. I think yeah, I think the biggest the biggest question mark now is what do you if I talked about, like the shelf life of competing at the top of the sport, like what else? What do you do? After you're not doing that? Originally, I, my plan was to go into FinTech, I work for a company in San Francisco called borrow, which is a mobile banking company kind of reshaping the world of banking, making it more accessible and, and more enjoyable for everybody. And I liked that idea. I love to finance in the number side of Wall Street. I didn't love the traditional finance start. So I think like the FinTech world is really interesting to me, like finances and money and the way that our world works is not going to go away. And how do you how do you help educate and make people like, kind of feel better, and you know, help them do their finances better? I liked that idea. But again, you're like, is that impact is the work that I do that at a startup going to be more impactful than I could you know, if I just focus on a smaller demographic of people that ride bikes and you stay in the bike world and you say, okay, like I've noticed certain things in the bike industry that feel broken to me from a business side of it, like do you say I want to fix the business side I'm gonna work for one of the partners that I have or one of the companies that are in this bike world and try and make that a better product for then the people or do go off the deep end and you just say like, I'm gonna I don't know, like there. It's It's hard because I do I get paralyzed by optionality almost in that my life so far. It's hard it would be be hard to predict the path that I've gone through, like to go like grew up as a soccer player, like highly motivated, highly driven, and then going to Columbia in New York City, like graduated as a psychology major and go work on the trading floor. And then, you know, move back to the West Coast. You know, it's just like a, it's kind of a wild ping pong ball of a career path so far. So when people say what's next, I am like, I don't know. But also with that, it's kind of the beauty of like, my mom always told us when we were growing up, like, you're never gonna regret having options. And so with that, like, if you try your best at everything that you are doing the optionality like, you're never going to be mad about having a potential to go work, either x place or y place or do different things. So with that, like the bike career was not ever the plan. And so with that, try and live in that moment. And then when the time comes, you got to say like, Okay, what's next? And this abyss of, you know, you're my own? How do I change the world mentality? And am I doing enough? Try and figure out like, what that would be, which is a, I think, a lot of pressure, but hopefully I can figure it out.

    Andrew Vontz 1:06:23

    Yeah, it's interesting to, to hear you talk about your path is like a ping pong ball. Experience. I, you know, honestly, I've done nearly 100 episodes of this podcast, when I was a journalist, I'm sure I interviewed more than 1000 people and some of the world's highest achievers. And just in my day to day life, and, you know, my life and business world as an executive and whatever. I feel like, narrative and linearity and experience are just things that people impose, like, over time as, as the picture starts to gel. I don't I don't think it actually makes a lot of sense to anybody. Has anyone actually,

    Isabel King 1:07:05

    like done right? Yeah, maybe there are people maybe that are like, in 10 years, I will actually do this, like if I had laid this out. And if you had told me as a 22 year old graduating from college, like, this is your path. And I'm like, No way awesome, but no way. And so I think with that, like, it's, it's nice to feel like you have some control in your life where you're, you know, there is definitely a path where you could say, like, you work at this firm, and you get promoted. And this is a very set path. And, and that's awesome. But I also think I've kind of learned another kind of saying that we had in our family growing up was keep your knees bent, which came from skiing moguls, you keep your knees bent, like if you visibility's not great, you keep your knees bent, you can kind of absorb and take on kind of whatever bumps in the road that come come your way. And so with that, unfortunately, we've really had to keep our knees bent, and the last two years and navigating, or I guess, I guess, four years now navigating everything with my dad. But somehow, you know, stay on your feet, keep moving forward and see see where you can go with it.

    Andrew Vontz 1:08:17

    Yeah, I like that. That's a great thing. Because ultimately, it really does seem, I do believe in free will generally. And I also think control generally is totally an illusion. I think we have, you can control. Right? Yeah, yeah. So things that seem linear, not necessarily linear.

    Isabel King 1:08:38

    Yeah, I agree with that. Like, again, if you go, like, if you go to a race, you're like, Oh, I control my outcome today. Also, kind of what's fun people say like gravel racing, like a lot of it comes down to luck. And you're like, yeah, like, there's a certain amount of skill and preparation and everything that you can do, and then something's going to be thrown your way. And if you don't keep your knees bent, you're gonna be in a ditch, or you're gonna be you know, walking, and not finish, or get hurt. You know, like, there's a lot of different things that that are going to be thrown your way and that's an interesting like, I think you can extrapolate it out to life in general and say, like, life's gonna be a lot like a gravel race, where it's gonna be really hard at times and how do you take the things that are thrown at you and go from there and make it to I don't know, whatever the proverbial finish line would be.

    Andrew Vontz 1:09:30

    In general, what do you consider to be risky?

    Isabel King 1:09:35

    Oh, gosh. So I've always been a daredevil like my whole my I don't remember this but apparently my first swimming lesson ever I convinced the the swim instructor I needed to jump off the diving board, even though I didn't know how to swim to the side. And I was like, you just you just wait down there for me like I want to jump off the diving board and then my mom was like, great. This is terrifying. Yeah. And so with that, I definitely think like the risk tolerance is higher. I think, once you if you have a family if you have others that are dependent on you, I think like, I don't have children of my own yet, but I consider my sisters and my mom, like very big part of that. So everything that I do you want to make sure that like, not only are you not putting them in a position where, you know, they would be, I don't know, I'd be there hurting myself or doing something that's detrimental to our family. And then obviously, like financial risk and things like that is definitely I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I wasn't like, you know, strapped financially coming out of business school. And so I was able to take a risk and say, It's okay that I don't have an income per year. So with that, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I'm risk averse. I think probably a higher risk tolerance than most, especially when it comes to like doing crazy athletic things. But uh, I do, I do like to keep it safe. I do. I do think in in everyday life, as we talked about, like, there's a lot of things that you can't control, I like to try and minimize the potential of risk. So descending fast is awesome. I will be at the back of our group in every training ride on a Saturday just happily taken up the caboose. Because in a race, I will rip it, I will absolutely rip it and there will be a chance that I overcook a corner or something like that. But for me, like the Strava glory of a descent right now is something that I don't need to do. So I definitely have like the day to day of like, minimize, like, if it's a blind corner, I'm not gonna go over the other side of the road. Or if it's a you know, there's only a certain amount of like, I don't know if that stop sign is really going to ruin my day like that, I probably should reevaluate why I feel that I'm so late to something. So things like that, again, like the, the what would I don't know try and be a representation of what you want others to be, I guess. So take risks where it matters and then try and minimize the other ones.

    Andrew Vontz 1:12:24

    Well, sad. Boy is thanks so much for being here today. And thanks for this conversation. I really enjoyed it.

    Unknown Speaker 1:12:32

    Thank you for having me. I did as well.



Andrew Vontz96