Pro Cyclist Kerry Werner on the Rise of Gravel, the Contraction of Cross, the Lifetime Grand Prix & Creator Life
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Kerry Werner was living the hardcore multi-discipline pro cyclist life long before it was cool and has been bringing viewers inside the races on YouTube for nearly a decade. During that time, he has gone from an ace mountain bike pro to one of the brightest American stars in cyclocross to taking the now inevitable leap into the Belgian Waffle Ride series and Lifetime Grand Prix.
As pro cycling and creator life on YouTube have evolved, so has Kerry and his breakfast habits which have seen him transform from a pancake evangelist into just another cold cereal muncher. I loved getting to hear his point of view on those topics and his controversial course tape clotheslining during the 2019 cyclocross National Championships. You can find Kerry on YouTube and on Instagram.
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Choose the Hard Way is a podcast where guests share stories about how hard things build stronger humans. Sign up for the newsletter to get the story behind these stories updates and more. If you’d like to suggest a guest or say hello, DM @hardwaypod on social or send an email to choosethehardway@gmail.com.
Host Andrew Vontz has spent more than 25 years telling and shaping the stories of the world’s top performers, brands and businesses. He has held executive and senior leadership roles at the social network for athletes Strava and the human performance company TRX. His byline has appeared in outlets like Rolling Stone, Outside magazine, The Los Angeles Times and more.
Today he advises and consults with businesses and nonprofits on high-impact storytelling strategies and coaches leaders to become high-performance communicators. Find him on LinkedIn or reach out to choosethehardway@gmail.com
In This Episode:
Kerry Werner Instagram | Website
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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn
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Kerry Werner 0:00
So, I've been flexing this whole time.
Andrew Vontz 0:02
Okay, killer, man, I can tell I'm going to need about 700 Watts off the line here. I don't know. But I mean, I didn't tell you duration though. I'm gonna need that for about eight minutes. Okay. So, yeah, this is like, this is, this is a mob on to effort here. We're gonna go all out. All right, man, before we jump in, is there is there anything you want to talk about that you haven't gotten to cover? And you know, hundreds of hours of your own videos or some of your controversial bunk bros appearances?
Kerry Werner 0:35
Not really, I feel like I do a pretty good job of being a pretty open book most of the time.
Andrew Vontz 0:43
All right. Well, if you're an open book, Why does Dylan Johnson talk so much shit? Do you want to start there?
Kerry Werner 0:48
Well, I mean, it's obviously because he's, you know, have a he's afraid of his own inadequacies. And it's just like, a way to kind of shelter himself from dealing with this.
Andrew Vontz 1:01
Yeah. Do you feel like there's a bit of an escalation between you and Dylan in like, tattoo work right now? I've noticed you guys both both gotten pretty inked up in the last 12 months? Can you speak to that?
Kerry Werner 1:13
Honestly, I didn't know Dylan was getting tattoos until, like, maybe maybe just before sea otter or something. And then I was like, Well, I better get some more because I can't let him outdo me.
Andrew Vontz 1:30
Yeah, it's got what do you think about his tattoo game? How would you rate it?
Kerry Werner 1:35
I mean, I don't know. So he kind of just like, from what I understand. He just like walks in there. And then he's like, Hey, man, can you just like put some cool artwork on me? And I feel like, mine have a lot more. Like a lot of mine are derived from personal experience. So I mean, tattoos are art. So I mean, like, it's cool, too. But unless he thinks he's a squid or something, I don't know.
Andrew Vontz 2:04
I don't know. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't get the chance to ask him this from when I had him on the show. He does have that. It's like a shark squid or shark octopus? I don't know if that he's like a big fan of Sharknado. Or, you know, it's good to have one of those down in the Carolinas, is that something you'll find in the stream and Pisco or what?
Kerry Werner 2:26
Maybe on the right drugs, you could find one of those.
Andrew Vontz 2:29
Yeah, yeah, potentially. I know a question that a lot of people will have, if they're Kerry Werner fans, is you do you have a tattoo on your wrist? And it's, you're always kind of like, it's like this in your videos? What does the tattoo actually say? Let's, let's unveil some secrets.
Kerry Werner 2:45
So my left wrist says what got you here won't keep you here. And it's kind of like kind of like a motto of mine about like, how I think that like stagnation is like the public enemy number one, and just kind of never really changing and never having an open mind to what else there is. I think that will really put you in a rut and just keep you stuck in place without being able to move forward and grow as a person.
Andrew Vontz 3:26
In your career, have there been moments when you've felt stuck? Or is this thing always this mantra always kind of been top of mind for you?
Kerry Werner 3:33
Ah, I mean, it's kind of always been there, with my like willingness to just like throw myself at any challenge. But more recently, I think that like having to step away from cyclocross, which is something that I like is still my favorite type of racing and transition into more gravel racing. That's been like a bit of a comfort zone push just because like the demand for these longer races is a lot different than what it takes to be good at a one hour full gas race. So yeah.
Andrew Vontz 4:10
Why do you think that the shift has happened? Because it's, you know, cyclocross was super hot from? I don't know, do you want to put yours on it? What do you consider the hot years?
Kerry Werner 4:21
For sure. When like Jay Powell, like when, towards the end of Tim Johnson's career, and when trombone and Jay Powell are all racing, Jamie Driscoll like so back in the, you know, like 2010 to 2015 was like, pretty hot back during the UN or not the ncgp the. See, it's so I mean,
Andrew Vontz 4:48
who remembers but yeah, there's a big national survey. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of early beginning social media. But yeah, I remember like hitting refresh on VeloNews trying To find those stories, right, and I like actually, I wrote about Travon, back, you know, back when he was national champion for mountain bike magazine when that existed I went up to Asa substructure. Yeah, I went up to Ventura. He showed me his, his muscle car. I actually I found that interview again recently, and he was talking to me about, he would never listen to anything when he trained. He's like, Yeah, I'll go out on like, a seven hour zone to ride and I won't listen to anything. He's
Kerry Werner 5:26
still Wow.
Andrew Vontz 5:30
So So that's some, some real willpower. But yeah, so during that era, what were you coming up as a junior just getting into the sport.
Kerry Werner 5:38
So as a junior I started basically with a all my focus on the mountain bike. So I did a lot of stuff with the US National mountain bike team. It wasn't until, like 2013 or 12, maybe I did my first cross race. When I was in college, at least McRae college, and I went to bend nationals. So I don't know if that's exactly the year but whatever your nationals were in Bend, and that was kind of when, like, I was like, This is really fun. I'm pretty good at this. And then I tried to do it more moving forward from there.
Andrew Vontz 6:24
Because we're talking about cyclocross, I can't I'm just gonna go there man when you got jammed up in the tape. Right and for you know, this this podcast, we talked about cycling a lot. I've had a lot of cycling personalities on recently, my listenership or not all core cyclists. Could you give a little bit of a setup about what happened in that moment? Man, I was, I was cheering for you. I wanted that so bad for you. I felt like that was your day, man. What happened?
Kerry Werner 6:52
Yeah, so I think that was the end of last one. It was nationals in Tacoma, Washington, 2018 or 19. And so gage Hecht was leading. I was second and then Curtis. And Steven were just gapped a bit. And so we came in right before the finish straight. There was this like, kind of it was slightly off camera dropped down to like the flat of like the main course. And as gage dropped down, there was a big G out at the bottom. And the dude was like, he was just, he was nuking. And I think like just compressed, you know, we're running low pressure. And I think in that GE out, he compressed tires and got sent off the course into the tape. And he went through the tape. It was like, it was like two, it was like taped two rows high. And so he went through it and was just pulling tape with him. And then instead of stopping and like, going getting back on he just hooked a left through the tape again, and pulled it out. And I was I was right with Him. And when I hit that G out, you know, it was like, there was no time to stop. And so as he pulled the tape out in front of me it was just like, it was like a head tube clothesline. That was that.
Andrew Vontz 8:32
Just like a Looney Tunes cartoon. It was I mean watching it. I just had this visceral like reaction in that moment. It happened so fast. Did you think you were gonna just break through it like Rocky What did you think would happen? I
Kerry Werner 8:48
hope so. But so then funny enough so like after the race we went to a brewery where the guys that the guys I think that MFG crew was helping set up that course and they told me specifically that there was one guy I don't remember who it was but the guy I was talking to was like hey man, the person you might want to be really mad at is this other person because just before the the race they put the order in for the course tape and the option was to go point two mil or point three mil and they went with the thicker one so I thought I would break through it but yeah, no go
Andrew Vontz 9:34
in what ended up happening for people who didn't see the race
Kerry Werner 9:39
in the whole race or just then No, just that yes go well, it was basically like I said it was like a head tube clothesline and it kind of just like eventually, I hit this point where I just went over the bars and ended up on my ass and I don't know like I tried to keep going but I think it took some wind out of my sails.
Andrew Vontz 10:06
But what was the impact on your motivation at that point of time? Did you feel like you could close the gap and win the race still? Because at that, up until that moment, I thought I was 100% Sure you're gonna win the race? I'm sure you were too.
Kerry Werner 10:18
Yeah. I mean, I was definitely looking forward to the, you know, the rest of the race. I was feeling good. And like the court I really liked the course it was like, proper technical. For me, it was pretty mountain biking, because it was all like on a hillside. So it had like a bunch of steep chutes and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I got back up and tried. I think by that time, Curtis and Steven had just passed me and I think I like put a big dig in to try to get up on their wheel. I don't know that I was able to and then I was just kind of hanging out and forth all day. So that's where I ended up.
Andrew Vontz 10:53
And what's happened to the sport? Since then?
Kerry Werner 10:59
Answering this makes me makes it seem like that moment was the pivotal moment in cycling.
Andrew Vontz 11:05
Yeah, this was the pivotal moment. Yeah, this was this is the grassy knoll moment in cyclocross, but I mean, it does seem like something happened and like gnats used to be this huge thing, just in cycling, cultural. Generally, I feel like the people really look forward to cyclocross had tons of heat. A lot of people were participating at gravel kind of started to rise up, which is, you know, there's the pointy end of the race. There are professional athletes like you world class athletes, but it's also something kind of like a 10k where people just show up to complete the race cycle. cyclocross, of course, is not like that. You're not just showing up and casually doing a cyclocross race. I mean, I know some people pretend they do that. But they I don't know, can't really do that. So it kind of started to not become super popular thing to do. But from your point of view as a pro athlete, what happened in the intervening five years?
Kerry Werner 12:03
Yeah, I don't know. Like, think that I think that people, like for sure, the pandemic had a big impact on the sport. And I think that people were looking for something new. And, you know, like new bikes were being made for gravel, even though I don't think there were that much different than cross bikes. But I think with the pandemic happening, it like gave people this kind of outlet to just go explore and do bigger rides. And, you know, like, there's not many people that like to go out there and like, throw their head against the wall doing vo two efforts, which is kind of what you need to do to like, be okay at Cross. And so I think people just like wrap their head around, like riding all day, and having fun doing it. And I think it just kind of stuck after the pandemic. And then like that the gravel races were kind of there already. And then people just jumped in full steam. But it's interesting that you say like, the you you made the, the 10k comparison, because, in my opinion, like, I don't feel like many people train for, like the pop up five K's and 10 ks that happen like the drumstick dash the Thanksgiving, you know, but like, yeah, so many people come out for that. And so like, when you compare, like, crossing gravel to a running race, I feel like crosses only an hour. Like, I mean, that's for us. It's usually like 40 minutes for, you know, the category races. And so it's like, how can you not want to do that? Over like, races for some of the category races are like, you know, eight to 12 hours depending on what the, you know, depending on the race.
Andrew Vontz 14:09
Right, but there's of course, the spirit of gravel during those eight to 12 hours, which just carries people forward as if they have wings.
Kerry Werner 14:16
Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. I don't know, I think I was touched by the Spirit of gravel at unbound and honestly, I think I'm gonna file a harassment complaint to be
Andrew Vontz 14:37
Yeah, what happened there?
Kerry Werner 14:40
Yeah, I was just I was feeling good in good group. And I made it about six hours in with that group. And I just, I don't think I was eating enough. I thought I was. You know, I I was really not looking forward to this race, though. Only other race. Like this was my second least sought after race this year, the first being Leadville which is next for me. So, but I will say like, I had some bad vibes going into Unbound, but then coming out of it, I do want to give it another go just because yeah, I mean like the first time you do an effort like that, you've just learned so much from it. And I'd like to try to put together a bit bit better of a race next time I do it
Andrew Vontz 15:38
with talk to me about the bad vibes were the bad vibes, curious what was going on.
Kerry Werner 15:42
So roughly 120 110 miles in. I just, I think that the effort caught up with me. So that was like, roughly five hours in or so six hours in. Yeah, I just was not taking in enough fuel. And we were pushing like, I think I was averaging like 270 or so for that time, which is roughly like 1000 calories an hour for me at that output. And it just wasn't, I wasn't replacing it. And that caught up with me. And then I started to feel the bonk and instead of like cramming down as much food as I possibly could. In the back of my mind. I was like worried about GI issues. And so I was a little scared, but I just kept holding on to that group for dear life. And so I just like went deeper into the crater until I found the bottom and then I had to sit on the side of the road for a bit and I spent like an hour and a half trying to claw my way back out of it.
Andrew Vontz 16:57
And for anybody listening if you do not follow Kerry's YouTube channel, you definitely should it's one of my favorite cycling YouTube channels. Curious is one of my favorite cycling YouTubers. We're definitely going to talk about Sherman the dog and why Carrie has abandoned pancakes for cereal here in a bit. But yeah, if you check out the unbound video carry, you've got some great video. I'm sorry to laugh, man. But yeah, after you imploded, it was not a good scene. It looked like a very dark moment for
Kerry Werner 17:27
you. Yeah, it wasn't the best, like the worst was watching tob and ride past me and just not being able to do anything about it. Because whether or not Tobin will admit it out loud. He's the only person that I care to beat in the lifetime series this year. And so watching him ride past me was tough.
Andrew Vontz 17:51
Why do you want to beat Tobin so bad? Why?
Kerry Werner 17:54
I mean, why wouldn't you want to beat Tobin? Now we have this, we have this big vendetta and you know, we're both cross racers coming into the gravel scene. So there's like this little bit of a like, who, who's who's the better rider, you know. And I beat his ass last year at cross Nats. And now, we're all just doing the lifetime is a big build up for singlespeed cyclocross World Championships, which is in his hometown in Santa Cruz. So yeah, that's, that's the carrot I'm chasing.
Andrew Vontz 18:35
Yeah. And since you've announced that that's kind of the apex moment of this feud. I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and give a shout out to Josh to be a who's also a resident of Santa Cruz. He's a buddy of Tobin's connected me with Toby and to get him on this podcast. But Josh, I want you to know, I'm coming to get you getting back on the cross bike, I'll be there this fall, and you're going down.
Kerry Werner 18:59
That's what we need more shit talk. Maybe that's why maybe that's why cross kind of started taking a dip from gravel.
Andrew Vontz 19:05
Yeah, I mean, that was one of my favorite things about cross. I mean, Josh and I were definitely cross rivals. We know each other from high school. I actually took Josh on his first mountain bike ride in Lawrence, Kansas, which he reminded me of a couple of years ago. And yeah, once we were both living out in California, got into racing cross. And, you know, Josh has spent a lot of time on fish to her. So I feel like I really need to beat him every time I raise him. And unfortunately, he has been me a few times, but he's putting in a lot of time out there at Fort Ord, you know, preparing for these battles. And I'm I'm doing other stuff. So here we aren't. Yeah. Yeah. So Carrie, as you think back on the on the crosshairs. I mean, you've been you spent a lot of years racing a pretty full program in Europe after your US program during those years. I know you're still going over there now. But what was it like to be out there? You know, at the European level of the sport like at the biggest best races? And yeah, I mean you were holding your own you were doing well like you you were progressing until gravel kind of came in and forced most US cyclocross racers to move in the direction of becoming gravel pros. But what was that experience? Like for you being in the mix over there?
Kerry Werner 20:30
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I started racing, with the US National mountain bike team as a junior and my first race was my first race overseas was World Championships and Val de sol in 2008. And I went into that thinking, like, you know, I beat a bunch of kids from Colorado, to make it onto that team. And so I felt like, I was hot shit. And so I went over there thinking, like, you know, I'm going to do big things. And I think I got pulled three laps down. So I was I had already kind of been exposed to that really high level of the sport, and I knew what, what it's like to ride in Europe against those guys. So, you know, after I transitioned out of the mountain bike scene into the cross scene, I was hoping that, you know, like, I'd beaten my head against the wall doing mountain bike World Cups, and I was hoping that, with better success racing in the US that I would come and be able to have better success racing on in the cross World Cups, which, to an extent was true, but it's just the level and depth over there is, is just, it's, it's crazy. I mean, it's why you don't see many Americans doing well, in the world tour races, or any really any of the big races over there. I think like, for me, it was great, because it just like, at when I was younger, and trying to like be the best cross. I mean, I'm always trying to be the best racer, but like, when you're chasing those UCI dreams, I would always go over there with a blank notebook. And I would just be taking notes about like, how these guys are so good, like, where they're excelling where they're better than me. Why I think maybe they're better than me. And it was always a big learning experience. And it was always tough, because I you know, like, during the whole US season, we have a, we have a lot of travel. And so like starting in September, going through December, it was basically like maybe two, three weekends off. And so by the time we went over to Europe, the tank was pretty much empty already. And then to go over there and just like, kind of basically lose motivation throughout the entire time you're over there. And you get this like carrot put on World Championships, or whatever the last race is. And you're like, Alright, I just got to make it to there. So that was always a little tough for me. Like, I kind of wish that I would have gone over there earlier in the season and tried some things when I was like, fresher and more motivated. But it was always a great experience. Because I always came back from those trips with like, you know, it would be a big ass kicking to go over there. But I always came back from those trips with motivation about what to work on for next season.
Andrew Vontz 23:53
And when you were over there, did you have specific rivals within where you were finishing in the race really like this is the guy I want to try to beat this week because I'm not going to be Matthew Vanderpool or Wow, or Blair tunes or whatever the case may be really like this is a guy who's asked I want to kick to get 16 Next week.
Kerry Werner 24:11
Yeah, yeah, there's a few of those riders, like Stan Goudreau was one of them. Michael Boris was one that I always had my eye on. Vinnie Vincent bass Don's was one because he would always come over here in the US and like, you know, it seemed attainable to stick with him and beat him. But then over there in Europe who he just had another year.
Andrew Vontz 24:40
And to go way back, what got you into riding bikes and into racing?
Kerry Werner 24:46
Yeah, so I think I was like 15 Up until this point, I've only ever really had like Walmart bikes. Basically buy one every year because they break and a friend mine, his parents had real bikes. It was like the first time I'd ever seen trigger shifters. And like brakes that worked. And so we went to a state park near my, my house where I grew up in southeastern PA, French Creek State Park, which is like, I'm pretty sure that's where rocks grow. And they, they take them out of there for the rest of the world. And, yeah, we just basically felt like writing trials when we first went over there, because there's a lot of like rock water bars, uphill, technical climbing. And so it felt like we were just flat, we would do a road ride to get over there. And then we would just like flounder around over there for an hour and a half or so and then ride home. And every time we went, we would like, you know, get the water bar that we didn't get last time or something. And so it was always like, fun. And we were progressing at it pretty fast. And then I'd never really even even when we were doing that I didn't know there was racing. And he, he had told me there's this race coming up. And so I think I think I had convinced my mom to buy a friend at her work was selling a specialized Rockhopper. And it was like 400 bucks. And my mom was like, Holy shit, that's expensive. The next bike was $3,200. But yeah, so I got that bike and did this race. And I placed second behind my friend. And it was just kind of like, yeah, the history from there. Like it just, it just pulled me in. And I really liked the challenge of it. And then did it I think it was maybe three years. Two years after that two and a half years after starting is when I got to go to World. So it was a pretty quick trajectory in terms of like, moving up through the levels.
Andrew Vontz 27:04
What sports had you done growing up prior to becoming a world class cyclists in two and a half years?
Kerry Werner 27:11
Well, I would like to backpedal just because like I said, I did go over there and get pulled three laps down.
Andrew Vontz 27:17
I mean, you're being you're being modest. I mean, just to get on that team and be able to go do that is a pretty remarkable achievement. And you haven't name names, but I'm like, did you like beats up coos to get onto that team? Like who did you
Kerry Werner 27:29
know, it was a ROB squire. Shoot. John, there was a kid named John. John.
Andrew Vontz 27:42
Shout out, John, how you doing? Shout out to John and Ringo.
Kerry Werner 27:46
I remember John had the biggest hands. It looked like he could crush coconuts with his. So I don't remember exactly. But it was a big kick. It was a bunch of kids from Colorado came out like the kids that did well at Nationals and stuff that year. But they came out to the east coast and just, it rained the night before. And they just Yeah, they just didn't know what they were doing out there. I'm sorry. What was the question? Yeah. Before
Andrew Vontz 28:15
that, what kind of sports were you're doing? And what did your family think about you getting into cycling? Was that a normal thing for where you lived? Or where I grew up? It was a pretty strange thing for somebody to be doing when I got into it in the late 80s. I was like, What are you doing? Yeah,
Kerry Werner 28:29
yeah, so similar for me, like none, no one in my family had ever biked competitively or even like, entertain the idea of it. So I had always just played the traditional sports. I was a pretty athletic kid. Basketball was my favorite. I played soccer, baseball, and I ran cross country so yeah, cycling was not it took some adjusting but like just to wrap our heads around what what it was like and what it took and how to do it but my parents were super supportive of it. I mean, like countless mornings when I was you know didn't couldn't drive myself. I remember my mom would get like it it was always like pulling teeth to get me to print out the because this was before smartphones so like print out the the Google Directions cue sheet and then also find the the thing on like the tom tom, the desktop or the car GPS unit, and it was always like pulling teeth to get me to do that the night before.
Andrew Vontz 29:43
Yeah, that's amazing. My parents also were very supportive. My mom drove me all over the state of Missouri to go to places you probably don't want to go to to do regional mountain bike races. We took one family vacation to go do there was a cactus cop in Illinois. I at one point, and I was like, that was like the closest national thing that I could go try to do. We turned it into a family vacation. And my older brother Jeff is still mad at me that that's what's I'm sorry, Jeff. But yeah, that's what we did on that vacation. But that's great. So you had a, your family was very supportive. And again, for anyone who's followed your videos, it looks like your family is still very involved in your racing today.
Kerry Werner 30:25
Yeah, I mean, my parents make it to a bunch of a bunch of my races, as many as they can especially like the cross races that are close to home. There, they're not as as excited to come to these gravel races, for obvious reasons. I mean, he just see me like when I leave the place, and then come back, and then there's like, a six hour gap in the middle. So but yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm extremely fortunate to have that kind of that level of family support.
Andrew Vontz 30:59
Let's talk a little bit about your RV game. Okay, what's going on? Because it seems like you're always in a newer, different RV. So what's like, what's the deal, man? Yeah. Are you you got like an RV hustle going on beside or like, what's the deal? It
Kerry Werner 31:14
should be it should be, we should point out that I have an RV. It's a 1991 Tioga monterra. So it's as old as I am. 32 years old. That doesn't go on trips. All of the RVs you see in the videos are Emily's parents are V's. So okay. They are, you know, they, they love to do the traveling and love to be part of the bike races. And that was all just part of it. They just love that. And I loved that they loved it. Because you know, I got to utilize the RV and we kind of like, they started with a small class C like 26 foot and then they moved up to the next size like a 33 foot and now they have this giant behemoth of a 40 foot thing with a garage in the back like a toy hauler. And it's it's pretty next level.
Andrew Vontz 32:17
Yeah. And is that new this season? Or was that last season?
Kerry Werner 32:20
That was new last year?
Andrew Vontz 32:22
Yeah. When that showed up in a video and I saw the back. Should there's like an empty room. This RV? RV so big. There's just an empty room in the back. I was like, What does carry have something else going
Kerry Werner 32:34
on? That's where you drive your side by side up in and store
Andrew Vontz 32:37
it. Your your snowmachine perhaps? Whatever. Yeah, any kind of any kind of machinery. You could put a logging equipment back there, whatever you want. Yeah, definitely. Well, that's great. I feel like you really have an advantage when you're showing up to you know, like Transylvania or some of these other races. It's like kisses tour buses rolled up. It's Kerry Werner, right. Do you feel like you get kind of some heat from the other racers for your setup?
Kerry Werner 33:05
Oh, I mean, they don't say it to my face. I think it's a big and I think it's a big intimidation factor. Rolling up in that thing that kind of, they probably like look at each other and scoff but, I mean, what are they gonna do? Yeah, if they had the opportunity, they'd be in one too, you know?
Andrew Vontz 33:22
Yeah, absolutely. Does that thing have a trailer on the back like if you got a like a geo tracker, Suzuki, sidekick, something just to like get around town. Once you get on site?
Kerry Werner 33:33
There is there there is the option to put the trailer on the back. And I do have a Honda ruckus. So okay, that's an option. Okay, fantastic. And to operate this thing?
Andrew Vontz 33:46
Do you have to have your license class? Like, could you go operate a semi truck now?
Kerry Werner 33:52
No, I couldn't operate a semi truck. But fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how you want to look at the situation. You don't need any special license to drive that thing. Oh, you know, you can just pop in there and start going exactly. So think about that next time. You're like, ripping past an 80 year old in a 40 foot RV coming down the highway.
Andrew Vontz 34:14
Yeah. Have you ever gotten it stuck anywhere?
Kerry Werner 34:18
Nope. I know. I have
Andrew Vontz 34:21
not know what to talk about it. I get it. We all make carry. We all make mistakes. I'm
Kerry Werner 34:27
sure I was about to throw Emily's dad under the bus because he's had a few. The Ass end of that thing really kind of swings out sometimes when you turn it and it's hard to keep track of but I don't want to throw him under the bus.
Andrew Vontz 34:42
Yeah, I mean, you're a risk taker. You live on the edge. I understand. You kind of don't want to get into some of the type situations you've gotten into with that thing. So let's talk a little bit about breakfast. This is this has come up in previous episodes at Cameron Mason on I dubbed the term porridge core. which is, you know, like the intense oatmeal prep stuff that you see on his YouTube videos. For your I would say you've kind of a pioneer of pancake core. For years your fans have been following your pancake prep methods. We've seen you in Belgium like getting great market pancakes brought to you delivered recently, you've gone in the direction of cereal and I'm just I'm just wondering if everything's okay, man.
Kerry Werner 35:28
You know, everything is okay. I think the big thing and the reason I'm not a pancake guy anymore is because these gravel races start so goddamn early, that I just cannot be bothered to like, cook anything. And I guess I could like make a pancake the night before and then like, nuke it in the microwave, but it's not the same and not the same. Again, not the same. If you're in a hotel you don't you gotta have like a hot plate or some way to make a pancake. So in my in my mind, like, how easy is it to pour stuff in a bowl and pour milk over top of it. And I mean, Cinnamon Toast Crunch is pretty tasty.
Andrew Vontz 36:16
I'm kind of thinking about your tattoos on your wrist right now. When I hear you talking to sad talk, Carrie. Man, I feel like there must have been a moment when there was like a breaking point when you were going deep with your pancake prep, and you're like, Fuck this. I can't do it anymore. What? Tell me Tell me about that moment. I know I'd happened man.
Kerry Werner 36:35
Dude, it was probably in Europe, honestly. Because Okay, for some reason they don't like, they don't have frickin pancake mix over there. If you go in most grocery stores, they just have like crate mix. And if you've ever tried if you ever messed around with a crepe mix, like you make a pancake with crepe mix, and it it literally is just like a hockey puck of dough or whatever, like, whatever you want to call it. There's no I don't know. Like there's no rising agent. And so I had to get creative and like add baking powder and baking soda. But yeah, it's just I don't know, the it's a tough situation over there. Even the cereal game too. Because like, I don't know if you've noticed, but America, we know how to make highly refined and processed foods. And Cinnamon Toast Crunch is a great example of that. I recently had some cine minis over in Europe, which are the Euro equivalent of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. And they're garbage.
Andrew Vontz 37:40
Yeah, it stepped on products. You don't want to get into that.
Kerry Werner 37:43
So yeah, I think yeah, just I think Europe was the one because we're doing so much right. You know, like the curse period over there. It's just like racing every other day. And then you're making these like shitty pancakes. And you just get you just get blown out on him.
Andrew Vontz 38:02
Yeah, I'm sorry, man. That sounds pretty rough. Sounds like he sounds like you've kind of given up on life.
Kerry Werner 38:08
Well have adapted.
Andrew Vontz 38:12
That's great. And so now you're in the serial game. I want to go way back again, though. What was the first job that you had?
Kerry Werner 38:20
I was a I worked as a landscaper over the summer in high school for two years. And then and then it was my friends. My dad's friends company. And he was great, like, great boss. But landscaping is hard. And in the summer, it's hot. And so like, you know, I made it work the first summer and it was fun. It was fine money. And then like I tried to do it the second summer, but I was getting more serious about cycling. And I specifically remember this ride. This is like this was a pivotal moment in my life. I went out for this ride and I had a coach and I had some vo to work to do. And I had just like spent the day spreading mulch, or you know, whatever. I was just gassed before the ride even started and so I went out on this ride and I tried to do this vo to workout and I might have gotten like two intervals in and it just like it was not going like nothing was feeling good. And so I just like I was like, I'm I need to quit, like I can't do this job anymore. And so that's what I did. I quit and I went like full gas into like the commitment mode of what it was going to take to be a cyclist and again, like luckily I had the support of my family. And I had like a bit of money saved up to to do that. But Yeah, that was probably one of the best decisions of my life.
Andrew Vontz 40:04
Was that the last job job that you had? Yeah. Okay. All right. So speaking of jobs, I don't want to get you in trouble with anyone who sponsors or employs you. But speaking of jobs and their impact on your performance, as again, as someone following your videos, I'm like, man carry standing around a lot out in the sun for like 12 hours the day before major races, making good sponsors could get higher value out of him if they just haven't made videos and do the bike race instead of being an expo. I don't know if you can speak on this. But what's what's your take?
Kerry Werner 40:41
Well so I mean, I did, I did sign up for this. So like, I knew that it was coming.
That's all I got.
Andrew Vontz 41:02
All right. It's a great sponsor. I've used the product numerous times. I actually, I had, during the pandemic, I moved to Maine from the Bay Area, and I had to ship all my bikes. The one I needed the most, of course, got loss. It wasn't their fault, but it got lost. And they helped me find the bike. I've got the email somewhere with the human there who like tracked it down.
Kerry Werner 41:24
They're good at though they're good at that. Yeah,
Andrew Vontz 41:27
I didn't know that that could happen. They're like, Oh, yeah, it's stuck in the shipping and receiving center somewhere and eventually got moving. What do you like what other combinations of things have you had to do to be able to do what you do because again, someone's listening to this, they don't follow professional cycling, or they just see your cool videos and what you're doing on Instagram. This isn't like a real linear clear career path except for, you know, a handful of people who are very highly compensated to like 10. Guys, five guys making five to 6 million euros a year over in the world tour. For everybody else. It's kind of like a bit of a MacGyver job. So what does it look like for you to put things together?
Kerry Werner 42:10
I think that's especially so for American psyche, or not so great American cycling. Yeah, we just, you know, it's a bigger deal over in Europe, it's more recognized. It's not so much of a niche sport over here. It's like, there's not as many outside of the bike industry corporations willing to sponsor the sport. And so with that said, like, everybody looks for the bike industry for sponsorship and to tap into that. But as cycling is more or less a niche sport over here, there's not a ton of money in the cycling in this cycling industry to like, get everybody that should have a ride a ride. And so the first kind of thing that I did was when I was still racing mountain bikes, I raced for BMC was a big sponsor of a team. They wanted to get into the US market. So they sponsored this team with me. Steven Edinger, Chloe Woodruff, and Eric is avetta. And that was fun. And then that transitioned into BMC development team and I was actually the manager of that. So then we got it was myself Shana Palace set cus and Emily was actually on that team. So I mean, depending on how you look at it, you know, like I was kind of the person that catapulted step in in the trajectory that into where he is now.
Andrew Vontz 44:01
What advice did you have for him as a manager,
Kerry Werner 44:05
I taught him how to make pancakes. That was one thing. I remember specifically, there was a morning in Vermont, when we were getting ready for the Catamount UCI race. And the dude was like a human garbage can in terms of what he would eat like, I've never seen somebody eat so much fast food and just be an absolute shredder. And so he like, we went to the grocery store, and I think like, he bought bacon. So he was making bacon and then he made this pan of bacon. And he didn't drain the grease out of it. And I feel like I remember there was like a half inch of grease in the bottom of this pan. And then he just started pouring batter into it and eggs and he just like, used it all. So yeah, I don't know that I taught him a whole lot of that. You know, useful things, but I taught him a lot of things.
Andrew Vontz 45:05
And where did he pick up that diet? Was that something that John Tomek taught him down on the ranch in Durango? Or like, what do you think was going on?
Kerry Werner 45:15
Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, fast food does taste pretty good. So it's easily accessible. Maybe he's just a Yeah, a man of convenience.
Andrew Vontz 45:28
Yeah, to Ben. And at that point in time, did you could you tell that he was just head and shoulders not the Procter and Gamble shampoo products that keeps dandruff off your body? But could you tell that he was a step above? Other people from that generation?
Kerry Werner 45:45
Yeah, for sure. Like, the dude was an insane. I mean, like he could ride a bike well, but the thing that really set him apart was just like his ability to like he was just an animal of most climbs, like, he could just, that's when he shined on the ski like the ski slope resort races. He was always a super big threat. And I think he did the right thing by kind of like, I think steps still to this day will tell you like, he loves riding his mountain bike. But I think he did the right move where he saw an opportunity to kind of branch out and do some racing on the road with optim are rally at the time. And right. And that was kind of like what really launched him into into the road scene.
Andrew Vontz 46:42
Did you ever think about I know you've done some road racing and I believe even during the pandemic, you were on a road racing team, right. Were you on Project Echelon
Kerry Werner 46:51
for in 2021? Yeah, I rode with them for a season.
Andrew Vontz 46:57
Yeah. Did you consider going deeper into road when you were a younger more impressionable person? No.
Great. Why not?
Kerry Werner 47:12
I mean, just just not not fun to me. I don't know. Just I had a lot more fun. It wasn't not fun. I just had a lot more fun. Racing Off Road and the vibe just like jammed with my whole ethos of things. Just way better than then the like calorie counting stepping on a scale like all this, like super anal over analytical stuff. That was like kind of the the boxes you needed to check back in the day to be a road racer, and I just didn't like that.
Andrew Vontz 47:55
Yeah, I don't know why this is popping into my head right now. But I did the Pisco stage race. Two years in a row, you and I did stand in the food line together one night. And during the cradle and forestry stage one year, I stayed in your group all the way to that first. It was where it's where the dirt road ends, and then you turn in like Go through the gate onto the single track. So I've actually, I've been I've stuck with you. I've hung with you, man. We've been down together. Yeah. Yeah. So we're tight. But I'm, I'm thinking about during your day, that was a very uncomfortable experience for me. Maybe that's why I'm, I'm thinking about that. But during your project Echelon days, is that also when you briefly were an eraser carry? Oh.
Kerry Werner 48:46
It's interesting. You say that? Well, like, I did race to E races. But I felt like I had to because of project echelon. They were like, had some sort of sponsor partnership going with like, rgt at the time. Yeah. And I did the Joe Martin, stage race, II stage race. And I think I did like one, one other practice race or something. But that was just not for me. I don't know if everybody was was doping and like, or weight doping. And like saying they weighed less than they did, but I was honest. I stepped on the scale before the race, put my weight in. And like I feel like I'm pretty strong. Like I can keep up especially off the line for at least 10 minutes, you know, anywhere no matter what the race is. And it was not the case in in the E world.
Andrew Vontz 49:54
Yeah, it looked challenging. That was I don't know if you're in the spot right now where the basement is where that went down?
Kerry Werner 50:01
It's not I'm not. This is way, there's way too much light and color up here. It'd be much darker down there.
Andrew Vontz 50:09
Yeah. Are you in the same house? So does my question. Yes. Yeah. Are you? Okay? So there's that's probably a place when you go there a dark memory comes back about what happened during that race. Because it looked, I've done I've done some erasing not at your level, but wow, you look like you were going into a part of your mind you didn't want to visit
Kerry Werner 50:30
and I got dropped. Yeah, quickly. So I haven't written the trainer much since then.
Andrew Vontz 50:37
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Can you say a bit about the area where you're based?
Kerry Werner 50:43
Yeah. So I'm in Roanoke, Virginia right now, technically, I'm in Vin. But that's just like the next town over.
Andrew Vontz 50:51
Yeah. And what's the right what's the writing light there, just based on some of the things you've again that you've shared through your YouTube, you've done a couple of fk T's down there, I believe, but the writing looks fantastic. I'd never heard of the cycling in that area, just displaying more of my ignorance here.
Kerry Werner 51:07
But I mean, we so Roanoke is a in the silver level ride destination for mountain biking. We have in town we have Mill Mountain, which has roughly 14 miles or something of trail. I don't know if that's correct. But then right out it is now it's correct now because you've set it and then you can do a 14 mile loop for sure. And then there's carvings Cove which is a much more well known mountain biking destination and then we have peppered kind of in the back country a bunch of really good stuff. And then the the Blue Ridge Parkway runs three miles from my front door. So you know, that's a that's a 469 mile scenic Parkway that runs like the like just Herot basically like from Harrisonburg, Virginia, all the way down to Cherokee North Carolina. So lots of like, we don't have huge mountains here like like the Rockies, but we have a lot of just ridges as far as you can see. So a lot of 1000 foot climb kind of things. And then just we're surrounded by the George Washington and Jefferson National Forest. So there's tons of Forest Service and gravel roads all around us as well. So it's, it's it's a it's a great playground for for biking, all disciplines. Really, I think the only thing we don't have is a track near us.
Andrew Vontz 52:43
In with mountain biking, did you ever consider just going deep in that Axio direction did you feel like you had a bit of that Nino sugar inside of you?
Kerry Werner 52:54
I did for sure. And I did that for quite a while like until I was maybe 2423. But then that was like right around the time when the the UCI was like really starting to televise events. And all of the race courses got so lame, because they had to keep them at like 5k distances. And so that meant like, you couldn't do the fun trails. And like a lot of these races were just like put in a park basically like a cross race. Like one race. One park that I will never go back to probably is Benelli in in California, because that was like the most garbage race course ever. And I just remember like to make it technical. They had to like, put some janky ass like handbuilt rock garden in with like railroad ties and like, it just wasn't fun. And so, eventually, like doing years of that kind of wore on me and I that's when like I tried to do some cyclocross and then like, I found some success in it. And it was just more fun. And it was easy to make that switch for me.
Andrew Vontz 54:13
Do you feel pressure to wear flat brim hats? No. Yeah, do I mean you don't think that? I don't know, four or five years from now we're going to kind of see you ease into more of like, a flat brim kind of style in the pits.
Kerry Werner 54:27
Did you see this? I can't, I can't hide this from the world.
Andrew Vontz 54:32
Yeah, you've got great flow. Thank you. If you're listening, if you're listening, Kerry's kind of flexing with his hair game right now.
Kerry Werner 54:39
Great way better than Tobin's hair game. I don't know if you've seen that recently.
Andrew Vontz 54:43
I haven't he talked Well, I think when I interviewed him, he was talking about how Keegan could use some kind of mind control to convince him that bleaching his hair was giving him more watts. Is that what you're talking about?
Kerry Werner 54:56
Well, that and it's just yeah, it looks like he's got like a mop on top of his head. Like he's in like, he's in man bun status.
Andrew Vontz 55:03
Okay, very well. Let's jump. Let's jump to mid south. So I'm kind of thinking about like RV face off. We've got you 44 feet. You got snowmobile room in the back. Payson is there. Payson now has, it's gotta be like a $300,000 brand new RV is what it looks like to me. So what goes down in the race?
Kerry Werner 55:27
I didn't have the RV there. Just so Okay, so you know, so maybe I had the RV there, right? Yeah, but the race was, you know, it was only 100 miles, I think we did it in four and a half hours, it was relatively flat. So like, once the front group of like 10 or 15 got established, then it was just kind of being safe and smart and being in the right place at the right time and not working too hard. And I think it eventually whittled down to like a group of 10 or so coming into the last 10 miles. And right there at the lat at like mile 91 or something of 100 there was like a one mile single tracks section. And just based on how the other guys in the group are riding some of the corners out on the course I really wanted to be towards the front of that group. And I saw, you know, pace and made a big push to get in there in the front. And then I knew that that was that was going to be a move because I knew he was going to push and I knew that pace and had some of the better handling in the group so I just got to the front with him and yeah, we pushed through the single track and got a gap and came out of it and just that was that was the move so it was pacing myself and John Borssele men that came out of the single track together and then we pushed for maybe the next 2030 minutes but could like we weren't getting away from each other and came into town together. And I kind of that's where I kind of fucked everything up I didn't I didn't pre ride the finish and so coming into the finish straight I just didn't really know what was happening I was leading when I shouldn't have been and pace and wound up at the base of like the last kind of climb maybe 500 meters out and just put in a huge move up over it caught me by surprise and ended up winning the race.
Andrew Vontz 57:44
So for you when something like that happens does that stick with you? Or do you let it kind of slide off?
Kerry Werner 57:51
I mean, yeah, like I was still happy with that because it was kind of like I didn't know where I was going to be coming into the start of of the season and so like getting third at that race was a that was a positive thing for me.
Andrew Vontz 58:10
Let me sorry, let me make you feel bad about it.
Kerry Werner 58:14
Oh, no, you don't have to because I already did. Like I had to go back through the GoPro footage and watch case in like dangle 20 feet off my wheel while I'm just up there pedaling. And then by the time I looked back he was already like ripping past me so yeah, you don't have to make me feel bad I already knew it's all it's all just part of the thing like you're not going to you're not going to nail every single race and like I said like again with these with these this mantra here like everything that happens like you can learn and grow from it. So I've been I've been pre writing the finishes moving forward or since then.
Andrew Vontz 59:05
What's been your favorite race that you've done of all time?
Kerry Werner 59:08
Of all time that's a that's a tricky one. Because like you can separate a race by it was good because you had a really good result or you could separate a race by like it was just a really cool vibe a really cool race man immediately off the top of my head like BC bike race is hard to beat. I did that twice. And it's just yeah, like the trails that we rode when I did it were just awesome. And not having ever written those trails before or really much at all in the Pacific Northwest. It was really really fun to go race on them. I love like going to a new spot and riding trails blind or racing them blind. I think that's really fun. So that yeah, that that, that that one's up there a lot.
Andrew Vontz 1:00:13
How do you feel about the lifetime Grand Prix? And what would you like to see them do potentially new or different with the series,
Kerry Werner 1:00:19
I'd like to see them put a mountain bike race in it. Otherwise, I think they're doing a pretty good job. I think it's interesting, because if you asked a road or gravel guy they would, or they'll probably say like, there's too much. There's too much mountain biking in it. But like, in reality, like, I mean, Jeff Kaboosh did sea otter on his gravel bike. While that is a mountain bike race, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that those are like technical mountain bike trails. I just like to see like a proper mountain bike race get put into the lineup, especially since they call them like the series like an off road series. But I think they do a really good job with promoting the series the athletes in it. The like Docu series they made last year about about the lifetime Grand Prix is awesome. And like, I think we need more stuff like that to get more people stoked on bikes in the US. It's cool, because I mean, like I've heard mostly people in, in cycling still, but like, not in it at a high level of racing just in it because they like to ride their bikes, you know, they watched it. And just they thought it was great. They thought it was cool. And I think the more of that we can have the better. You know, like, I think e bikes have certainly helped put more people on bikes, but I think just yeah, we need like, unfortunately, like the influencers in the sport, just like it's all just like feeding the same market. And like, there has to be this way to like, branch out into more of the the people that aren't familiar with cycling. And I think things like that Docu series in like, I've heard a lot actually about, like, people watching the unchained documentary on Netflix, and just getting really amped up about the tour about to start so like, more stuff like that, I think is great. And I think I think we'll see more like, over the years, I think there'll be more and more juniors, and even older people getting into the sport for recreation.
Andrew Vontz 1:02:51
You know, Carrie, I co hosted another podcast called Beyond the peloton that's totally focused on pro road racing. And we of course, are doing an unchained recap series like everyone else. I'm actually I want to get a couple of people who have done unchained recap podcasts together to do podcasts about our unchained podcast. Like I just want to keep stacking layers of people talking about other people making content, I want to go as high as I can until I have a pyramid that touches the sky. When you think when you think about what you're doing with your content, because you've been at it a while you just talked about these, these influencers shaping the sport and potentially getting more people went to it. How do you think about what you've done with your 360? Cam and Sherman the dog?
Kerry Werner 1:03:42
Yeah, I think like I tried to blend like a pretty good mix of like, off the bike stuff with like what it takes to be at the front of the race kind of stuff. So yeah. I think a lot of my channel is just trying to show people that like you can, you can cycle at a really high level without sacrificing fun. And it's not as it's not as hard as, as a lot of people make it out to seem. I mean, like obviously the training is tough, and the lifestyle can be tough, but like there are there are some fun, easy things you can do. And then also another thing I like to do is just like just like have fun on my bike and go on adventures that don't necessarily like aren't race related. My hope is that like inspiring somebody to like, I don't know, like riding my ebike with my mountain bike attached to the back of it is just like a weird thing to do that would like maybe spark some sort of weird idea in somebody else's head, you know? Or like doing the FK T stuff like in your area. Just I think like, if you can get somebody to do that kind of stuff and get out of their comfort zone, then they might have some fun and inspire other people to do it.
Andrew Vontz 1:05:11
Recently, you made a series of videos that seemed like you, you know, you've been traveling quite a bit you were in Austria, doing some work for bike flights, I think. And I got the vibe, you almost were like in content jail, like you felt a bit like under it, right? Like you're out on your balcony. I think you did like three or four race recaps? Do you ever start to feel the weight of like, Man, I gotta do this stuff. I know, it's a really important part of your job, probably in the value you deliver to sponsors. Does that ever start to weigh on you? And is there anything you wanted to do to evolve what you're making?
Kerry Werner 1:05:47
Yeah, I don't know. So like, that's the one thing that it is tough. Sometimes, just because I've definitely like, I've definitely stepped away from doing like, adventure vlogs, just because sometimes it's nice to just go on a bike ride and like, have it be for you, you know, not for other people. And so like, I think when like when I was, like, a few years back, I was a bit more motivated. And like the channel was growing a lot. And so I was like, trying to get as many videos done as possible. But lately, it just, it seems to be like my motivation is only really there for doing the race, the race blogs and the race recaps. And then yeah, I think that's like my, that's like, the way that I can make it sustainable is that like, I have to have some of these rides, where I'm not worried about getting video to do some sort of flog or whatever. Like, it's just nice to go do a bike ride? And have it be for me, and focus on the things that I care about or don't care about and and then just like, with the lifetime series, it's easy, because it's like, I target those races. And I'm not I don't really have. I have some other races on the schedule, but I'm just kind of trying to like not spread myself too thin, basically.
Andrew Vontz 1:07:18
Yeah, it is interesting with the lifetime races people seem to have a bottomless appetite. Yeah. For content related to those events. I mean, I've noticed it with this podcast as well. It's just like, wow, I mean, unbound. in particular. I think you could make 500 videos about it, and people would consume all of them. But in with the lifetime series, did you apply to be in it in the inaugural season?
Kerry Werner 1:07:45
I did. I got snubbed. How did that feel? Fine. Yeah, I mean, like, I was pissed. They didn't accept me, but like, I didn't really want to be in it. But I was pissed, because I felt like I deserved a spot based on the other people that were there and the criteria that they were choosing people with, I think that in my resume, I did not include enough gravel race results or like mountain bike race results, but everything fresh in my head was mostly cyclocross. And so that's what I talked about mostly. And I'd never done a lifetime event that year, or up to that year. So maybe there was some bias there. But yeah, there is a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I do I do want to do well, this year, and I am focusing on it because I just like, I just want to put a big middle finger up at the end of the year and, and just like you should have accepted me, you're one.
Andrew Vontz 1:08:58
Yeah. And here you are now, or is there you've talked a little bit about some of the races that are the most important going forward and how important it is, of course, to be Tobin, are there any races that you get nervous for when you get on the line? Because at least on camera, you seem pretty relaxed, leading up to events does anything actually make you stressed out or nervous when you race?
Kerry Werner 1:09:25
Man, honestly, not really. Like especially getting into these gravel races. Like it's been kind of nice because like you do all this, it takes so much work ahead of time. And so like I'm really, I really have been really me and my coach, I work with Chris McGovern. And we've been like hitting, hitting the training really hard. And so like it's it's nice for me because it takes like, I'm doing everything I can do. I'm crossing the T's and dotting the eyes as I should and so like you get in these big gravel races and it's like, you don't have to Be super nervous about the start, you just have to be positioned well for when the moves are there or like when a certain section come. So it's not as stressful as cross where like, everything happens so quick and like you only have an hour to make the most of it. So I think like, all of those past experiences and dealing with like the high stress, race situations have like, helped me come into this, this part of my racing career and not really be that nervous about racing.
Andrew Vontz 1:10:35
There does seem to be a rather high level of mean girl style shit talking that goes on on social media among people at the very tip of the spear and pro gravel racing. Is anybody actually saying anything directly when you all are together and racing? Like I hear people chirping on podcasts on Twitter, you see the Instagram posts. And you know, in my experience, when people were saying those kinds of things, there might be words in real life. Does anything ever happen?
Kerry Werner 1:11:05
I'm sure a couple of fuck us get through. I mean, I know they do around when like dudes are being dicks and not pulling through. But um, I think that it's mostly just like, I don't I think everybody's like too afraid to actually start shit in a bike race. You know, they just like wait until they can get on social media and then like, kind of like, make a bunch of backhanded comments about so and so.
Andrew Vontz 1:11:33
Yeah, but not you. You don't do that carrier class act. Well, Carrie, thanks for being here today. Thanks for sharing your time with us. We didn't get to talk about your dog Sherman. I hope Sherman is doing well. He's shout out to Sherman.
Kerry Werner 1:11:47
He's sleeping around here somewhere.
Andrew Vontz 1:11:49
Yeah, perfect as it should be. But yeah, good luck with the rest of the series. And thanks for making time. I appreciate it. Thanks
Kerry Werner 1:11:55
for having me on. It was fun. All right,