Unbound XL Winner Kristen Legan + Gravel Legend & Author Nick Legan
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Unbound XL winner Kristen Legan & Gravel legend Nick Legan on racing, adventure, bikepacking and teamwork in sport, life and marriage as lived at Unbound Gravel, Ride the Divide, TransIowa and more. The inside line on the months of prep, recon and planning that went into Unbound XL, why Kristen and Nick like to go deep, why they choose the hard way and recommend that you do, too.
Kristen Legan won the 350-mile, 2023 Unbound XL gravel race in 26 hours and six minutes, beating her closest competitor by nearly two full hours. She modestly describes herself as a sometimes-pro racer who competes in gravel and endurance mountain bike races with a healthy heaping of bikepacking in the mix. She also leads communications for Shimano North America and Mosaic cycles and works with endurance athletes of all kidneys through her coaching company, Rambleur.
Nick Legan has worked as WorldTour and Olympic mechanic, a tech editor and now leads gravel marketing for Shimano. He’s completed the Tour Divide, Trans Iowa, Unbound XL and Unbound 200 five times. He’s also the author of “Gravel Cycling: The Complete Guide to Gravel Racing and Adventure Bikepacking.”
If memory serves me correctly, the first time I did the Unbound 100 back in 2013, Nick and Kristen were there. You can watch a chunk of Kristen’s Unbound XL victory in the Vegan Cyclist’s video about the event, he closely trailed her for much of the race before he tapped out and she went on to win.
Nick has graciously helped me with a decade’s-worth of tech questions about my gear for which I’m deeply grateful and I’m excited to bring this conversation to you today where we cover everything about Kristen and Nick’s meticulous preparation, planning and teamwork to put Kristen in the best possible position to execute to the best of her ability on race day at Unbound XL and dive into many of their other adventures and how Kristen is working with athletes through her coaching company.
Find Kristen on social @KPLegan and learn more about her coaching practice at rambleur.com and find Nick @nlegan and on bookshelves everywhere if bookshelves still exist, otherwise find him on Amazon and buy his awesome book.
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Choose the Hard Way is a podcast where guests share stories about how hard things build stronger humans. Sign up for the newsletter to get the story behind these stories updates and more. If you’d like to suggest a guest or say hello, DM @hardwaypod on social or send an email to choosethehardway@gmail.com.
Host Andrew Vontz has spent more than 25 years telling and shaping the stories of the world’s top performers, brands and businesses. He has held executive and senior leadership roles at the social network for athletes Strava and the human performance company TRX. His byline has appeared in outlets like Rolling Stone, Outside magazine, The Los Angeles Times and more.
Today he advises and consults with businesses and nonprofits on high-impact storytelling strategies and coaches leaders to become high-performance communicators. Find him on LinkedIn or reach out to choosethehardway@gmail.com
In This Episode:
Kristen Legan Instagram | Website
Nick Legan Instagram
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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn
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Choose The Hard Way is a Palm Tree Pod Co. production
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Andrew Vontz 0:00
Go. Yeah, now now we're gonna ride 14 miles per hour for All right, so All right, we got a lot to talk about today. And usually my episodes are about an hour. Do you all have an hour? Do you? I know you've got family there. Do you have? Do you need to cut out sooner than that? Or will that work? Okay,
Nick Legan 0:23
our works?
Kristen Legan 0:25
Yeah, no, I think we're, we're playing.
Andrew Vontz 0:27
Yeah. In our works. Okay, I'm gonna apologize one more time for making you sit around. And wait, that's not cool. But I am really excited to talk to you all. I'm really glad that you reached out. I think that this is going to be a really fun conversation. And there are a lot of different directions that we can go, obviously. So let's just see where the conversation takes us. I definitely wanted to do some just like general gravel talk. I wanted to do the like being a gravel power couple talk. I definitely want to do a little bit of Excel talk. We can talk about what's wrong with you all that you do this stuff. And yeah, but we're just kind of gonna jump in. I don't know if you've listened to my show, but it's about how hard things build stronger humans. Okay, awesome. You've heard my whole spiel, you know who I am. Nick. We know each other Christen. We've probably seen each other in passing a few times, I'm sure. Okay, so I actually Nick, I think the last time I physically saw you in person.
Nick Legan 1:23
That'd be a few years ago now.
Andrew Vontz 1:28
Yeah, and I received a hot tip prior to this, and I wanted to check into it. We don't have to go into it if you don't want to. Now it sounds like I'm going to talk about something really dramatic. It's not. But Nick, is it true that you were the mechanic for Lance Armstrong during the 2010? Tour? You
Nick Legan 1:51
just the true or false? Yeah. I was one of his.
Andrew Vontz 1:57
Okay, true or true or false? You worked on that spike. You were one of his mechanics, you have multiple mechanics on No, we have a spike.
Nick Legan 2:05
Like in most World Tour teams you have for especially for a grand tour you have Gosh, it could be it could be three to five mechanics, depending on what stage you'd bring in extra mechanics for time trial stages, things like that. rotate through in the car, stuff like that. So mostly, I was just the guy who had the lucky job of washing a matte white bicycle. It tried to keep it looking clean. So yeah, it had its challenges, but it was a lot of fun.
Andrew Vontz 2:35
Okay, and would you have to mechanics per bike? Was that like an Atul Gawande Checklist Manifesto type things? So you're making sure everything's done according to protocol? Or was that for plausible deniability so that if something
Nick Legan 2:48
broke, no, honestly, it's more of a division of labor thing, it isn't like a certain person is assigned a certain bike, we definitely just take certain roles within the day. So someone's going to be in the car, someone's going to be washing the bikes when they come back, and then post wash someone else is going to do a check through on him. So it's much more of a division of labor across a set of tasks than it is like someone assigned to a given riders bike.
Andrew Vontz 3:15
Okay, so let's let's just get right into this. You are a gravel power couple. Let's talk a little bit about how did you go to the top of the route of the gravel power couple rankings? Because I'd say you're probably number one currently. I know that you know, and other times you've been like on three to number three to number seven on the list. But right now I put you in amazing how does it feel asking? Oh, man.
Nick Legan 3:41
It's been a long time coming, though. I mean, we I guess what it really comes down to is we've been in this space for quite a long time. And you know, Chris has been knocking on the door of some pretty big results for years. And this year at xL she really broke through it, which was super exciting for both of us.
Andrew Vontz 4:00
Okay, you thought I was kidding. You thought I was kidding about being the number one on the Choose a hard way gravel power couple rankings, but you truly are at the top. It's official. I'm giving you the award on this episode. And yeah, I mean, you've been around gravel forever. And it is a long time coming. And Kristin, congratulations, of course on your victory this year. I know that a lot of people want to hear about that they they may want to hear a bit more about your your dark, secret past as a triathlete.
Kristen Legan 4:34
Oh, no, don't help me. Come
Andrew Vontz 4:35
on. Yeah, I know. But do you want to talk a little bit about you know, just as a couple what went into planning for and preparing for winning the race this year? Because I have to think this is the culmination of a lot of work and you know, you're out there doing all the pedaling Christen, but you have so much knowledge to bring to bear from a training point of view from an equipment point of view. And did Nick mess up anything on your bike before the event?
Kristen Legan 5:02
No, not at all. Um, yeah, no, we definitely approached this as as a team. And so it's been really fun to get to, you know, come on here and talk as a team as well, because this is our our win, I definitely look at it that way. And we do that, you know, on both sides, when Nick has events, you know, we're working together, I coach him. And you know, when I'm racing, he's helping me a lot with equipment, and just trying to keep me sane out there as well. But yeah, going into this year, I think was one of the first years I really came to him and was just like, I want to, like, I'm why I want to go all in on this, I really want this one, I think I can do it if I commit to it. And I gave him pretty much free rein to say like, you know, you're the you're the equipment expert, you know how to make bikes fast. So I'm going to look to you to really set things up for me and, and we work together and, you know, obviously made some decisions together and making sure that bike worked well, just from a, you know, speed perspective, but also from just a comfort and actually wanting to ride it for 26 hours. So we worked on that together throughout the season. And, and then Yeah, same thing with training, even, you know, I coach myself, but I definitely look to Nick as somebody to bounce ideas off of and keep me pushing when maybe I don't want to, or actually probably more than more than that he's telling me to go rest a little bit more when I'm getting really cranky or getting mad. He's like, Okay, I think you're training to think your training is good time to get some rest in there.
Andrew Vontz 6:33
What do you find to be the hardest thing about working with each other
Kristen Legan 6:36
at tea? That's, it's a good question. Because, yeah, we work together, not only as you know, training and life, but we also work together on the professional side of things as well. So we ended up spending a lot of time together. But, you know, I think it's great, because we get to support each other out there. And, and, you know, thankfully, we have some time apart. And that's always a welcome, you know, change for a little bit, but then it just makes getting back together and working together that much better.
Andrew Vontz 7:09
You must be very well media. Yeah, totally didn't.
Nick Legan 7:15
Really good self awareness. And then just really honest check ins with each other, you know, like, Hey, is now a moment to talk about this. And, you know, we've all been in those relationships, or those scenarios where it clearly wasn't a teaching or learning moment, or even a sharing moment. It was a, you know, shut the hell up moment. And I think that's just being honest with that, and just understanding and compassionate with ourselves and one and each other. It really goes a long way.
Andrew Vontz 7:43
We're there any specific moments, like in the 24 hours before the race, or even in the week leading up to it when anything went unexpectedly that you hadn't planned for? I mean, you've got to be preppers. Like with the stuff that you all do? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You had the rain. So the rain was unexpected. Did you not plan for that scenario?
Kristen Legan 8:05
I think, yeah. Yeah. From that side of things, but yeah, no, I think we were really well prepared. Yeah, I was really relaxed going into the race. Nick was working unbound. He was there so we actually weren't hanging out too much together because he was just over at the expo all day. So yeah, so it was pretty smooth actually, like really things did kind of the stars aligned for this race and then no big
Nick Legan 8:31
time to be quiet. And just away from the, you know, the hustle and bustle of unbound because it's incredible. And it's exciting to be around the gravel family. But it's also draining you know, so we we had an Airbnb that we booked personally on our own dime just to just to have a quiet space to go back to and so that Kristen could hold up you know, and not be social if she didn't feel like being social. So we did we there was a lot of force out that went into into that.
Andrew Vontz 9:01
And with Airbnb, I'm curious the last time that I did you know, I did Unbound, 103 times, I don't really have any desire to do the 200. And there's no way in hell I'm ever doing XL. So again, congratulations on winning it. But the experience that I had the last time I did the 100 I just housing was so tight. I ended up staying in the dorm, which was, it's great that they provide that option. It's not one that I recommend to other humans who like to sleep. And that dorm is right next to wherever the train is. So there's just like a train every 30 minutes. Did you have a lot of train disruptions to your sleep during the week or it and I mean, I'm like, my my sleep set up is it's over the top. I'm like, I tape my mouth. I've got an eye mask. Silicone earplugs like the whole deal. I don't know what you do. But what was that like for you from a training point of view?
Kristen Legan 9:57
Thankfully, we were far enough. north of town. So you didn't hear the trains too much. But knowing I think that goes back to you know, we've been going out downtown for you know, over well next being going into it for over a decade and we know the town really well. So when we're booking things or when we're like deciding on those accommodations, we take a lot of that into account because it is hard. I haven't ever gotten to stay in the dorms or something year, I think it would demand
Nick Legan 10:22
that.
Andrew Vontz 10:26
Yeah. Okay, cool. All right. She must be made a different stuff to me. She must be way tougher, better sleeper probably. Yeah, right. Yeah, so I know, most of what I know about your ride, I've read interviews with you. And I've listened to quite a few things. But I also last night or two nights ago, I watched Tyler vegan cyclists video, which you feature very prominently. You, of course, beat him and you beat everyone in your race. But he had a lot of footage of you. And I'm just wondering was, did you have any dialogue with him during the race?
Kristen Legan 11:06
Yeah, yeah, we were in a pretty small group, I think probably like, probably six to eight of us for quite a while in the first 100 miles or so. And so I actually I ended up riding with him quite a bit, I was writing in his group through through that section, and was just, you know, checking in saying hi to everybody, you know, learning more about them, but then we hit the mud section together. And so that was where, you know, it's the first point where you have to think about how to take care of your bike and what's going on, and how you're going to keep moving forward. And so um, so yeah, I think Tyler and I got through that midsection pretty close together. And we kept kind of crossing paths from that point on. But didn't, there was so much mud, it was really hard to ride with people, like you would maybe pass somebody because they've stopped to fix their bike, or they pass you because you're stopping nuclear mud. And so you say hi, and then they ride past. But I did end up running into him, I rolled up on him just about to the second checkpoint kind of town at mile 150. Because his light, I guess, had stopped working one of the lights he was using, and so I roll up on them, and he doesn't have any lights. And so I was just like, oh my gosh, like it's, you know, 2am right now and pitch dark and stuff. And so thankfully, we were pretty close to town. So I just, you know, was like, get on my wheel. You know, I pointed my light a little bit to the side so that he'd have a clearer view of the road. And we wrote into the, the checkpoint together at that point. And then he went on to try and figure out how to fix his light.
Andrew Vontz 12:37
And the bigger mud section that was in the XL, it sounded like it went on for was it several hours? Like, how long was it? And what was that experience? Like for you?
Kristen Legan 12:48
Yeah, it was, I think we had about 11 miles and total of mud. And that section, I think was seven, I went back and looked at my little GPS track. And I think it was about seven straight miles of mud. So yeah, a couple of hours, I would say right in there. And, you know, it's, I knew the course pretty well. And I knew that this section, once we hit the mud, I was like, well, the road doesn't change conditions for quite a while. So if this section is muddy, I know it's going to be muddy for a while. So thankfully, I kind of had a good perspective of just, you know, settle in this is time to you know, we're in it now we really have to just focus on how to get through it efficiently. And I actually had a, I don't know, it's easy to look back now and be like, Oh, it wasn't so bad. I had a blast out there. I mean, it was a total adventure race. And, you know, it wasn't just, you know, sitting on somebody's wheel and trying to, you know, keep a certain pace. It was, you know, pushing your bike and getting your bike up and over big rocks and you know, clearing the mud and figuring out how to get through there. So I was, I was in pretty good spirits for most of it. But I'm sure there were some some darker moments at times where I just don't remember those anymore.
Andrew Vontz 14:00
Were you wearing you know, this is probably beyond the scope of what my audience might actually be interested in. But I'm definitely interested in it. But yeah, so Tyler, in his video talked about how he had tested and he had determined that wearing road shoes was the best thing to do for for walking on gravel roads or walking in mind. I might have to get him on here. I'm sorry. This interview is not about hey, there are some interesting things in his video that I was like, wow, that's like this is pretty West Coast mysticism here. That's very personally and seem very odd to me. Were you wearing road shoes or mountain bike shoes or what?
Kristen Legan 14:38
Yeah, I was on SPD pedals and cleats in mountain bike shoes for sure. That's the only thing that's the only thing I've even recent anymore. But they're you couldn't get me to ride road shoes out there ever. That's just clearing the mud would just be such a pain. I think. So yeah. I was in I was in mountain bike stuff. And thankfully I have a cyclocross background. So being able to kind of jump on the bike and pedal without being able to clip in and just kind of work your your cleats in your pedals in together, it was something I'd done before and knew how to do.
Andrew Vontz 15:10
And on the spectrum of athletic or life events that you have been through, where would you put the level of difficulty of this event, because you of course, have done it before. But was this harder, easier about the same?
Kristen Legan 15:25
I think it was, I would say it was actually physically easier than another year that I've done Excel. And maybe that's just because I knew what I was getting myself into a little bit more I kind of knew what to expect and how it was gonna feel. But I it was definitely the mentally The hardest thing I think that was what I was most tired most drained from after the race was just the mental of trying to be focused and taking care of your bike and making sure you're, you know, checking all the boxes. And, and in some ways, the mud made the bike, you had to kind of baby your bike, the rest of the race. And so you really couldn't go really hard. Like, there was never a moment where I was just like, you know, cranking and just like breathing hard. And it was a really steady effort. Because I didn't want to, you know, tear derailleur hanger off or you know, do anything silly, once we were past the mud. So not the most physically challenging, but I think the most mentally challenging for sure,
Andrew Vontz 16:19
it was for you what was the crux moment of the race when you were mentally at your lowest,
Kristen Legan 16:25
when we was actually passed all of the mud and into the second day of writing, and the temperature started rising, and it was just getting really hot, there was no cloud cover. And, you know, you're already kind of behind on nutrition and hydration. And so when I was rolling into a little town, Hamilton, which, in my original plans of you know, pacing, and where I thought we would be, I didn't think that store would be open. For me, I thought it would be there sooner, but then obviously, the mud hit and, you know, the plans went out the window. So I got to that store when it was open. And it was, you know, definitely a low point. But it was also a high point because they had this big ice machine out front or like a where you can buy some ice. And so I just sat down and basically made a bunch of IU socks and put them everywhere I could and tried to kill myself off. So that was, you know, a rough spot, but thankfully got through it with the with the help of some ice.
Andrew Vontz 17:19
Did you think about just crawling into the ice machine? Yeah, except
Kristen Legan 17:22
that that would have been horribly disgusting with, I mean, the amount of mud everywhere I was just I felt so bad for every store we went in. I was just like, I'm so sorry, I will try not to touch anything that I don't have to because I'm disgusting. Right now,
Andrew Vontz 17:36
this might seem like a bit of a tangent, but I think it's a really important topic. And unfortunately, I haven't really heard anyone touch on this. So we're gonna get a little bit serious here for a minute. But when we think about those poor Casey's general stores out there in the middle of nowhere, and all I mean, they know that, that the writers are coming and I know that both of you have been in the position of like rolling into these general stores, you know, almost like zombie like characters and just cleaning them out, maybe throwing some money on the counter and then walking out. Like what goes down inside of cases? And do you think that this is this is an ethical thing?
Kristen Legan 18:17
Yeah, no, actually, I think that's a really important question to discuss and I haven't seen it discussed too much because I've heard that the first check the first town we got to in Cottonwood falls this year, that there was some pretty unfavorable the situations going on, like people Yeah, they there were some people throwing money at the cash register being like, here, this should cover it and you know, walking out and, and, you know, these these, these people, they're like, the workers at the gas stations, all of them were so friendly, you know, every time I talked to them, they were like, running around, like, how can I help you? You know, like it, you know, they were really into it and helpful. But I think by the time you know, a lot of people got through that first one because we were so close together, everybody was in kind of a rush, that it wasn't a very nice situation. And so I think I hope that there's you know, maybe a bit more of a truce or something happening in the front group where they say, you know, let's go through this calmly. Let's make sure everybody can purchase their their product and and not overwhelm the the stores but yeah, that was that was a bummer to hear about.
Nick Legan 19:24
There's a classic way to handle that though. You know, like being you could go in and like everyone during that race can probably afford to buy the next three people stuff. You know, you can settle up I mean, there's Venmo you know, there's a classy way to handle this. And and we just haven't kind of I would I would put this on the riders I don't think it's up to the organization to do that. The organization has given those cases a heads up. Everyone knows what's about to happen. I wrote that cottonwood falls cases the day after unbound just on a personal ride. And and they told me like, Hey, is that event over? And they were like, relieved because they had have kind of a pretty rough day, you know, or at least a rough couple of hours there. So it's not cool. You got to respect these people, they have an inventory to manage, you know, and I think it is an important question as well, you know, these are these are tiny, in some cases, communities that welcome us. And we really well, we repay them. That's upon by throwing money at them. And that's, that's just not very cool.
Andrew Vontz 20:25
Yeah, can you imagine being behind the counter, maybe your manager
Nick Legan 20:29
could just lock the door, they all, they hold all the power, that's what people don't recognize when they're totally less than polite, is all they have to do is lock the door and your days over? So think about that.
Andrew Vontz 20:44
Yeah, and I have to imagine that when you're in there, have you ever like been in a face off over a specific item? Like it's the last thing of Jr. That's like, all you've been thinking about for 125 Miles is like, oh, I want to junior Mets. And you get there. And somebody with a muddy paw in front of you, swipes those up, throws a 50 at the counter and walks out.
Nick Legan 21:06
I've fought over a Casey's breakfast sandwich before but it wasn't really much of a fight. It was just the last one with bacon. So instead I got sausage. You know, like it all worked out. But yeah, nothing too epic.
Andrew Vontz 21:16
Okay. Yeah. How about you, Kristen, you ever had a showdown in cases?
Kristen Legan 21:23
Never showdown? No, but I have gotten there. And like all of the Gator aides are gone or something. And you're just like, oh, no, like, what do I do now? And so it was a bit of a shock and be like, Oh, all right, we're trying something new.
Andrew Vontz 21:35
And your plan this year, if I recall correctly, you just had your, I don't know what brand your frame bag is. But it was just stuffed full of mix. Right?
Kristen Legan 21:45
Yeah, so kind of going back to the topic of the convenience stores, I was worried that it was going to be this manic dash into the stores and I didn't want to get caught out, you know, I really wanted to be in the group I wanted to, you know, make sure I was in the believed women's group, whatever that was. And so I wanted to make sure I didn't have to purchase anything. So I was gonna go in, fill up my water bottles in the sink or in the bathroom, and then just put mix in. And then I brought enough, you know, solid foods in my in my dispersed stream bag. And, and so that's what I did. And I actually the first convenience or I didn't experience it because there's a park right next door to it. And I knew there was a water fountain there that I could fill up my my pack and my bottles with so I never actually went to that Casey's and didn't actually see the chaos that was happening. So thankfully, because I think that would have been kind of a bummer to see in the middle of the race. So I'm just hearing it after the fact. But yeah, I use just drink mix for the for the first two stops for the most part.
Andrew Vontz 22:47
Had you done? Did you all do a tactical survey earlier in the week? Had you like been to those checkpoints? And like single you're like, Yeah, I'm going straight to this water fountain. And as we all know, waterfall rates vary. I mean, you could be right. You can have a trickle you like you show up. There's there's still like running some COVID protocol things shut off. Like who knows. So did you go there ahead of time and check all those things out?
Kristen Legan 23:12
Yeah, I was out in in Korea in in early May, for another gravel race. And just to get some time. So I spent about 10 days out there, doing the race, but then also getting time on the course and prewriting a lot of the sections I don't know, thankfully, I've been out there quite a bit. So I knew a lot of the roads. So I was just prewriting the stuff I hadn't written before. And in that had gone and checked out all of the stops along the way. And then Nick and I, the week, the week of unbound went went out and finished that up together and kind of found that waterphone so I knew that was there. But I was like, Well, I don't know if it will actually work or you know if it makes sense. And so we went out Yeah. scouted it? How did
Andrew Vontz 23:52
Nick do during early Hang on? regexp performance? Like one to 10 How To Nick do
Kristen Legan 23:59
totally 10 It was great, because he has such a different perspective to it. And so and you know, he helps me kind of think about things in a different way. So it was really helpful.
Andrew Vontz 24:09
Did you make any adjustments after you checked everything out or
Kristen Legan 24:16
not? I mean, other than the water fountain, I think everything was pretty much it was more about just making sure you knew where things were in the store. So you could go to as you say, like go directly to the fountain and that kind of thing. So the only thing I changed was I was planning on not going you know, buying anything at the second stop. But at that point, the breeze had blown up enough that it didn't matter. It wasn't a mad rush to get through. So I went in and bought a a red pole and some pop tarts because that sounded great at the time. So that was the biggest change.
Andrew Vontz 24:47
How many hours were you putting in on your biggest training rides before going and doing this event?
Nick Legan 24:54
Maybe less than you?
Kristen Legan 24:56
It's a good question I need to learn.
Nick Legan 24:59
The point isn't Yeah, we deplete yourself, you know, it's to build yourself up. So a lot of the training that Rambler that her coaching business does isn't about like mega mega volume, you know, it's about fitting it into a life that has, you know, a family and a partner and a job. So don't me to talk over your question, but
Kristen Legan 25:21
yeah, yeah, no, I think, you know, like, on average, I was getting like 10 to 12 hour weeks in, on the bike, and then had a few weeks where I just targeted, you know, trying to get 16 to 18 hours or so. But I have a big background in endurance. So I can lean on that a little bit more than maybe somebody who's getting into the sport, and, you know, doesn't have that experience quite so much. But yeah, I think I, I typically train a lot less than, than other folks just focusing on the rest and recovery side of it a bit more.
Andrew Vontz 25:55
All right, I want to definitely want to come back to the Excel and go deeper on that. But Nick, I'm curious, like you wrote the book on gravel, right? You're the man. And for you, what's the longest event that you personally have done? And let's set aside bikepacking Let's just go with competition. Or we could go with bikepacking competition. There. Of course, there's things like the Atlas mountain race, like, there's just so many of these things now where people like, I'm gonna go do a race. It's 3000 miles, I guess. Maybe that's RAM. I don't know. What's been your device.
Nick Legan 26:30
If we're willing to include backpacking, multiday backpacking tour divide is my biggest achievement or longest achievement, so to speak. But in a single push, it was probably the now defunct trans Iowa, which was 340 miles. Then just right, it was it didn't April, they now have an event called Iowa wind and rock that has kind of taken up the mantle of trans Iowa, trans Ira was a very OG gravel event, it was the inspiration for what became Unbound, in fact, and it was all cue sheets, it was you know, no GPS, no, no navigational items, you're not allowed to carry a GPS on it. And you would get, you know, cue sheets to the first checkpoint, and you'd have to make the time cut, and they'd hand you the next set of cue sheets. And what makes that especially difficult is you don't know how to measure your effort, if there's a headwind because you don't know if you're gonna be in it for an hour, or four hours or 20 minutes. Because until you get the next cue sheet, you know, it's one big loop. So it's, it's a, it's really good mind whacking, you know, like, you just you just have to kind of be present and deal which is pretty cool. That's a bit different. You can do there's less prep that you can do for events like that. Whereas something like an unbound and unbound Excel a tour divide, you can you can spend a lot of time researching and and kind of turning yourself inside out and second guessing everything.
Andrew Vontz 28:04
Trans Iowa. Now default, what year did you do that?
Nick Legan 28:08
I did too. Well, I started to Yeah, it was 2018 wasn't I think I started 2016. And no one finished that year. Because Mother Nature wins whenever she decides to, and things like that. And it was just horrible. Just it rained all night. And again, like one guy, Greg Gleason made the first checkpoint, and then went off solo for you know, 100 something miles, and everyone else was like, well have fun. And then yeah, 2018, we still had some some pretty good adversity. But that's a particularly tough one too, because of how by design. Unbound Excel is a really hard event. And I never want to diminish anyone's efforts out there. But the way they that you start on a Friday evening and ride through the first night, relatively fresh, and then you ride into the Saturday, whereas trans Iowa and I will wind and rock start at 4am. So you've started in the dark for a couple hours. It's in April. So the conditions are typically worse spring conditions in Iowa, you ride all through the day, and then you ride through the entire night. So you're doing that with a lot more accumulated fatigue. So yeah, it's which is great. I think all of these things are they're just such a it's such an interesting set of factors that race promoters organizers can play with and manipulate to create a different experience.
Andrew Vontz 29:32
That's it's really interesting that you're bringing up trans Iowa. For me that was a point of origin for my interest in gravel. Not that, that not that that matters to anyone, but I guess it matters to me. I became aware of I don't remember how I became aware of the event, but I had a column in mountain bike magazine. It was really more of like a news roundup type thing and around like 2004 2005 and I wrote about I heard about trans Iowa. I talked to Jeff instead of like I wrote a brief piece about it. And then from then forward, I was very graveled. Curious. And I also I grew up in the Midwest, I grew up in Missouri. And I did read write twice. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Not a gravel event. But yeah, the the registers Annual Great bicycle ride across Iowa. Later things got super weird with that event. I don't even know what's going on with it. Now. I don't know if you remember it, like split into two events. There was like,
Nick Legan 30:26
celebrating its 50th anniversary thing going on? It's still going strong.
Andrew Vontz 30:31
Okay. Yeah. Right on it's, yeah, it's an amazing ride. If anybody out there has the opportunity to do it, definitely go check it out. One of the features, of course of that, I wouldn't know, I would call it a feature. But if you're in Iowa, in the middle of the summer, you're gonna get tornadoes. So perhaps that's why trans Iowa, happened in the spring. But that, you know, that event really captured my imagination, it's what later led me to decide to go to a much shorter and less challenging event, you know, at the time, the dirty Kansa, half pint one 100. But for both of you, what draws you to these types of sick events? Like what's wrong with you?
Kristen Legan 31:14
Short term memory. No, for me, I think I like the really long stuff, particularly because it's not as much about a race against another person, or, you know, trying to get time, that kind of thing. It's more about the being out there and like having to deal with the conditions, you know, anything that kind of can come up in the longer rides. And also just how to deal with your body through it. It's, it's more of this kind of mental physical, like personal challenge out there. We're still racing, you know, I'm still trying to win a race. But it's a lot more than again, just like putting yourself in the right place in a peloton, or, you know, making sure you're getting the right bottle hand ups, it's much more of this kind of, I got to take care of myself, I have to keep checking in with myself, and can I actually do it, you know, Can I finish this thing? Which I think you know, no matter what race you're doing, or how well you are, I think there's a point out there that you ask yourself that like, really? Like, am I can I keep doing this, or at least at this pace? And you have to kind of answer that, and I think is exciting to see what we come up with, out there. Sometimes we back off and need to, you know, take it easy and take care of ourselves. And sometimes you can dig a little bit deeper. And it's pretty cool when that happens. Because I think that just like allows you to level up the next time because you know, you can go that deep, you can really like reach within and find that level.
Andrew Vontz 32:39
So is it about getting to that point and seeing if you answer the call? Is that what it's about for you?
Kristen Legan 32:44
I think so. Um, I mean, I think there's a lot it's hard to narrow it down into that, but it is this. Yeah, I mean, I like to ride hard, I like to go deep. And these, these events really allow for you to do something, it's, it's hard to do that on your own, you know, just to go out and I'm gonna go ride for 26 hours and see what I can do. But an event really, you know, gives you the opportunity, I guess, is the way to say it to find that, that that level.
Nick Legan 33:13
I mean, we're on a podcast right now called choose the hard way, you know, we're not alone. I think that there's, there's incredible value in that. And there's incredible value in discovering other people who are who are like minded, you know, it's very much about self discovery for me. And it's very much about connection with others for me, and you know, I've, I've people and friends that I one of my best friends to this day is a guy I slipped on the floor next to at a post house and 2011 My first Unbound, you know, the guy performed our wedding ceremony, Kristen and I so, you know, you meet amazing people, amazing, amazing, transformative, people. That's pretty tough to be, you know, you find human connection. So I think there are a lot of good reasons. And it's up to each of us to kind of decide what that is. But um, yeah, for me, it's, there's just no turning back. It's just, it's, I mean, Kristen now, and we've both kind of built our life around this, you know, in many, many ways. It's as much of a lifestyle it is, as it is anything else. And it's kind of just supporting one another in this and what's the next big thing we want to undertake as a team. It's pretty cool.
Andrew Vontz 34:28
Do you all find kind of going back to this idea of I love Nick, I love what you said about just like the relational element of it like, yeah, there is this amazing community around. I mean, people find it around all different kinds of sports. There is something quite interesting. I think about cycling because your community lifts you up. It also hurts you intentionally. Right? And that's one of the ways that the community lifts you up is by putting you into these uncomfortable positions physically and mentally sometimes. So it's the touches part of the nature of what we do. And then other times it's more relaxed. But that's certainly part of what's fun about the sport. What do you think about when you think about something that's like going too far, or that's beyond the scope of what you have any interest in doing? What does that I mean, like you mentioned to her divide
Nick Legan 35:21
2700 miles on mostly dirt roads, from Banff, Canada to the Mexican border, in Antelope wells, New Mexico. That's pretty far in itself supported, right. So again, like you're not supposed to be drafting other people sharing resources, etc. It's, it's, it's out there, man. I mean, it's, I didn't even finish the thing until my fourth attempt in 2018. And, like, I was very much like, I don't know if this is possible for me, you know, and it's why I kept going back. And that's all relative. I mean, that's all that's up to each and every one of us to, well, if we choose to, to discover, like, what is too much, you know, and some it's so case specific, I mean, on a given day, you know, it can change. But I think it's cool that those challenges exist. I mean, I love that no one finished, that turns out to be the first one I tried. I love that. I think that's amazing. That that nature, one that the course designer, targeted, and Mother Nature beat us all. And I think that's fantastic. Because I don't think it's always a race promoters job to make the people feel good about themselves. You know, I think it's great when we have to tuck tail, go home, recollect ourselves and figure it out. How do we go better next time? You know? Or how do we roll the dice and get luckier with conditions? And I think it's that relationship with the unknown. That is so compelling to me, you know, that you just don't know what's going to happen out there, despite all the prep in the world. And that's really, that's exciting, if you choose to see it that way.
Andrew Vontz 37:00
How about you, Kristen?
Kristen Legan 37:03
Yeah, um, you know, Nick, definitely, he's a, he's a big inspiration to me in a lot of the stuff he does with the longer events and bikepacking and some things and I always joke that I'm a few years behind him. So if he's tried something, you know, maybe a few years down the road, I'll give it a try, because he makes it look pretty fun. But I will say that there's one thing that, for me, at least, so you're kind of getting into the, you know, not interested in going that hard, or that deep is something that next gotten into recently, and that's the, like snow bikepacking So looking at like the itI race and that kind of stuff. And for me again, I won't say never, you know, I'll never say never with with it, because I know myself well enough with that, but that stuff's really scary to me. And it's something that I'm not ready to take on or even consider at this point. Because it's, it's extreme up there. So that's something that's, yeah, it's fun to have those things that you're just like, Nope, I know, my limit that's not speaking to that didn't doing
Nick Legan 38:05
sorry, endured. But speaking to that point, like, I don't think anyone should. That's what's interesting about this, this world, too, is like I've said for years that like no one should be tucked into unbound. 200. Because it's that's just setting them up for failure or a bad time. You know, if you're not interested in it, or compelled to do it. Don't you know, and I think that people forget that this is all optional. We're all opting in, and no one else you don't have to, you know, the snow stuff scares the living daylights out of me to the winter stuff. But but I'm, but um, but I'm kind of, I feel compelled to explore it. At least you know, it's interesting.
Andrew Vontz 38:45
Yeah, I'm, I'm not choosing exactly about 200. I don't know. You know, I mean, never say never though. Honestly, like watching. I can't believe God, I can't believe I'm saying this. But seeing all the unbound hype, and it is just crazy to me. I can't tell you. I mean, you all are probably the same how much I've read or listened to about, there was some mud on a road in Kansas. Right? I mean, it's absolutely bananas. And when you think about what we're talking about, and yeah, the whole thesis of this show, which is hard things, build stronger, people, hard things are fun to do. That doesn't always mean that that you electively are designing the challenge that you're facing. And I think that you made a really interesting point, both of you that when you're opting in to doing some kind of adventure, whether it's you're going to do a bike race for other people, I don't know. It could be anything it could be they're going to try to solve a mathematical theorem. I don't know like whatever the case may be, you're going to do a puzzle that's got 10,000 pieces and it's a monochrome puzzle. I've talked to people who do that. That's not what I personally wanted to tackle. No thanks. It's just really interesting to me what happens, as you said, Nick, when the challenge is unknown, and And when you don't know when it's going to stop, that's when it gets quite interesting to me. And I'm really curious with both of you, I asked a lot of my guests this question. But this idea of domain specific resilience is really interesting to me, like you all do these, you know, these far out really long, intense Bike Adventures, I've done, whatever, I've done a bunch of bike stuff, not the same stuff, you all have not at the same level, but that's fine. Like, that's a manner in which I've participated in it. I part of what I find to be really interesting, is, you know, what do I do when one of my children perhaps has a tantrum? Where I'm in traffic, and somebody cuts me off? Am I gonna get pissed off? Or am I just like, wow, here's an opportunity to expand the elasticity of my patience and compassion for other human beings, to try to relax into what's happening and not freak out. And I'm curious for you all, do you find that what you're experiencing on the bike and getting into these situations? Does it transpose into other areas of your life? And in what ways? If so, or if not?
I finished my monologue. So.
Kristen Legan 41:15
Um, I mean, does anything help with like getting stuck in a traffic jam? I don't know if there's any mindset that can get you to stop feeling okay. But um, I don't know, Nick, what do you think on this I, I feel like it, it definitely just is a state of being it's kind of a mindset. But it's also not always there. You know, like, whether it's a race or it's work or you know, frustration with your house, something going on in your house, you're going to have those highs and lows, sometimes you're going to approach the problem with grace and calm. And sometimes you're going to freak out and yell about it. And I think it's all of it just takes practice. And I'm sure it bleeds over from one discipline or domain to the other. And, and, but yeah, I don't know, I haven't like, sat down to think about it personally, like, am I different now from you know, eight years ago? I'm sure. Sure I think about things differently because of the bike. But it's been this gradual kind of change. I'm sure that I I don't recognize I actually have maybe this one.
Nick Legan 42:16
Which is to say that if if, if we're not learning and applying what we're learning outside of our sport or domain, then what's the point? Because otherwise, it seems to me, like it's just a lot of vanity. If I'm not figuring out ways to be in my world, and show up as a better human, that then I feel like I just stagnant or worse, I'm getting worse, you know? So I'm not saying that you can I, or anyone on this call can apply that perfectly at all, you know, we're still humans. But I feel pretty strongly that, you know, a lot of the work that I I try I have done on myself and try to do is around mindset more than anything. And then really, for me, it's mindset first, and then it's applying that to my work life, my personal life, my sporting life, you know, I find that I can often sport gives us the space to do that. Like we're encouraged to do that in that space. And I think that everyone can identify, maybe not everyone, but a whole lot of people can identify with sport, you know, and that's why I think that it's so interesting. But to me, it should be universally applicable. doesn't mean we're good at it, but I think it should be.
Andrew Vontz 43:36
Yeah, I have a friend of mine, and he recently was in Europe doing a really cool and very challenging bike experience, like a road riding tour kind of thing bowtie day, about a week long, really big, hard rides every day, and was posting about it a lot on social media, and I love this person, but it's a really interesting example. Then on the way back, I don't know, they flew from Europe, they were in New York, I don't know what's going on. There was some maybe it was the air quality thing, I don't know. But they ended up getting stranded at JFK for like two days. And you know, so he's like, he did one of those posts where he's like, putting united on blast on Instagram is I'm sure 10s of 1000s of other people were and it was like, I had been in this line for seven hours and like I finally collapsed and you know, fell asleep on my rolly bag and bla bla bla bla bla and you know, can you help, etc. I get it. There's perhaps there are a few things more frustrating then I'm stuck in an airport. You know, he's like, I've been on hold for five hours and then get hung up on me etc. A really horrible experience. I also as I was consuming this and was just thinking, man, you're just sending another endurance. Well, you did not. You did not you did not end and you're ready to tap out and I get it. It sounded absolutely horrible. But I mean, that's kind of the nature of life. However things are going, there's always, there's always a wave that's rising behind you while you're paddling that you might not see. And you can either stand up and surf or like, you're gonna have a bad day.
Kristen Legan 45:16
Right? Yeah.
Andrew Vontz 45:19
Yeah, so I'm gonna, just from a more functional point of view, I'm curious, how do you all think about, as you look ahead at maybe the next 612 months, everything that you've got going on, Kristin with the coaching, Nick, with the things that you're doing professionally? How do you kind of pick out? What's the next challenge gonna be? And how do you like do the Jenga or Tetris and fitting that into the rest of your life? Boy,
Nick Legan 45:41
that's quite a question.
Kristen Legan 45:42
Yeah, the eternal question. Well, I think, you know, there was a really clear goal this year for me and put everything into that. And, you know, we sacrifice time with family and time at home for that. And so for me, I feel like that was a huge relief, you know, it was a great experience a great finish it, but it's also been a big relief. And I've also been really looking forward to not having that next big thing on the on the calendar next event that I'm planning on. So I don't know, I'm really focused on just getting back up to speed on all the work and just getting kind of ahead with a lot of the stuff I'm working on professionally. So my mindset has kind of transitioned that way. And then also to like, okay, you know, we've we've focused on me for long enough here. And now Nick, you know, like, what, what's your next thing? And how can we get you, you know, working together to, to really focus on
Nick Legan 46:37
the risk of going into like marriage counseling advice, or marriage advice. I think that Chris, and I go for a morning walk with our dogs almost every morning. And, you know, we have our phones with us, but we're not on our phones, we're out in the woods, we're not in front of a screen, it's just the two of us unless we bumped into a neighbor. And we I think that's if it wasn't actually by design, it's just the dogs need to walk, you know, but, but I think we actually kind of process a lot of what we have, and what we want to do and how we prioritize different things in our lives on those walks. Because it's just the two of us. And we Kristen is absolutely right, like we we made sacrifices for for her prep for unbound this year, and we're happy to do it, you know, because we're we are fully invested together on that mission. And we're already talking about the something I want to try next year, and and how we build the next, you know, six months or a year around that to some to some extent. And, again, I just don't want to just gush about my wife, but like, we work hard on our relationship, you know, and which is I think it's just another exercise in mindset and compassion, just like, I mean, you talked about domain specificity, but it's just another space to apply what we learned. So, yeah, I mean, it's not easy. Like, I don't get a lot of nights in my own bed with my work. I work for Shimano in marketing, and I'm at a lot of events. And we were just scouting an event together, which was cool. And but yeah, and then just carving out quiet moments to get it done. And then I think the biggest thing we've learned, as we've gotten older is just slowing down the number of things we're taking on. And we are very focused on quality over quantity. And when we say that now, lifetime Grand Prix last year was a lot. It was awesome. But again, we it was kind of a singular focus for us, you know, so I don't know if that answers your question. But I think that that's a lot of it is just communication.
Andrew Vontz 48:46
Yeah, definitely. So it sounds like there's a bit of like a slingshot effect where one of you picks a big, audacious goal. The other partners, I'm sure that you're still training and doing cool stuff, also doing professional things, helping to enable your partner and then you kind of pay it forward and the other person gets the Armstrong like, you're an analogy for anyone out there who's involved in track racing, right? So you're getting the arm sling, and like thrown up the road. Good luck, you better win because we put a lot of time and we don't we don't want to be disappointed. Have you ever? Like when's the last? I mean, Nick, you mentioned that you you had a couple of DNS in, in tour divide and some other events. So it sounds like you're the person in the family finishing less events and aggregates. Certainly. Yeah, no, I, I don't know. But for both of you continue, can you think of an event or you know, something like tour divide, which I guess we just like so monumental, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around completing that. But for both of you can you think of a time you've picked one of these big goals? You all have had to orient your whole Well, I found it, and it just went sideways
Nick Legan 50:02
to provide. I mean, you know, Kristen is a really successful writer. And I'm, you know, what am I saying by that, like completion is one thing with her events, you know, and you're never guaranteed to finish. But But Kristen is a podium contender, you know, she's at that level. And, but doesn't mean you haven't had disappointment, you know, like, torrefied is big, but like, if you've poured yourself into something and hasn't gone the way you wanted it, the disappointment can be just as just as big, you know, it's not the duration that matters in the end with these things and how we react to them. I mean, you had some misuse Chris admit like that, that first Unbound, you know, neither of us finished the first time bound, sorry, unbound Excel. I mean, what I guess what I'm getting at is like your relationship with failure. It's an important one, you know, and you can decide that it's fuel for your fire. And I think Kristin is very much done that with Excel, you know, and, or it can just be disappointment and resentment and spiral, you know, so I'm not trying to dodge your question I just like, but conversely, like, I'm not at the front of the races I'm doing, you know, I don't have that killer instinct, the way that Kristen does, and I'm perhaps not as gifted athletically. So we approach our events really differently. And so for me, it's just really about, but ultimately, success for us whether it while it might externally look a little different, it's really all just about execution. You know, it's about doing the thing, well, you know, doing the work, preparing and then executing it. And so, you know, if, if Christen is winning, or I'm completing, like, it's still the same process in a way, you know, I mean, that's how that's how I kind of look at it.
Kristen Legan 51:57
Yeah, now, I think we, you know, we Yeah, like anybody, we both have our, our, you know, quote unquote, failures out there, whether it's not finishing or not having the race that we wanted, and that kind of thing. But I think, thankfully, we both just love riding bikes. And so it's, yeah, there are sacrifices, and there are things that we put off, because we're training for something specifically, but I think we also both just really enjoy, you know, as Nick was saying, we enjoy the process of training of prepping and, and working together on that. And so, you know, I think we get disappointed when those failures happen, but it's not this life changing thing where we don't want to ride our bikes anymore. You know, we're not just gonna give up on that event. I think it you know, for both of us, yeah, like to avoid going back to tour divide multiple years, Nick, I think like, each year, it just gave him more, more fuel. And I think that's a really important thing to remind ourselves, it doesn't have to be in the moment, you know, right after the failure, or like the, you know, the the hard race, you're like, Oh, I never want to do that again. And that's fine. It's okay to be disappointed and be mad or you know, upset about it. But then you have to just be able to move on from it, and take what you can from it. And I think that, again, it takes practice failing. We've practiced that plenty of times.
Andrew Vontz 53:12
And whether you complete an event, don't complete it. Or, in the case of the XL, you win it, Kristen, what does recovery look like? After you know, like, XL or like, I'd love to hear about what it feels like, after the tour divide. To imagine that's a little rough. But I mean, all of these things. I kind of can't conceive of what the recovery process might feel I can I'm imagining it's probably multi week, but you've actually lived it. So can you tell me about it?
Kristen Legan 53:41
Yeah, well, for I mean, for the shorter stuff that I've done. It's way more mental recovery for me than physical. My back was, was hurting pretty bad this year for probably like three or four days. But that was really the only thing that gave me too much problem out there. So thankfully, I was, you know, low energy, but kind of back to normal pretty quickly. But the desire to train to kind of do any writing with purpose, that's still I mean, I'm still in the point where I'm kind of like, yeah, I could, you know, I'll ride my bike, I do some mountain bike rides, I'm gonna go look for some wild flowers, but it's taking some time to get the fire back. So for me, it's always a much bigger mental recovery. But, but turns out, it's a whole nother story. So
Nick Legan 54:28
I mean, I was just, I mean, you're just you're sleep deprived, you're, you know, I lost I think 15 pounds. And, you know, so you're putting weight back on your, you know, all these things. But ultimately, like, I actually was back on my bike after turbo and pretty quickly because it's at least that year, that was still about five years ago, but I mean, Chris and I went did trans South Dakota not too long after that, and just kind of toured it together. If you recall Kristen Yeah, I don't know, like, I guess my head was just like, well, we're just gonna ride bikes forever. Now let's just keep doing that, you know? So I mean, I definitely, I definitely got a lot of sleep and after that, but I just was like fuzzy, I just was like, kind of what am I saying I was kind of stone, you know, just kind of like, I'm gonna just watch some more TV. I can't do anything right now, you know. But, you know, you just come back from that slowly but surely. And I think the wisdom is, is like that Kristen doesn't have another event right now, you know, she's panicked about, it's, it's creating that space for yourself to recover. And it was the same tour divide, you know, it's not like I was, and this is the beauty of like, Chris and I were joking. She's like, a part time pro, you know, and I'm not even close to a pro. So we can create our schedules, you know, we have ultimate versatility, you know, flexibility. So, wisdom is in is it not thrown something directly after a big effort like that?
Andrew Vontz 56:00
What's your relationship with sleep like outside? That's
Kristen Legan 56:05
huge. Yeah, it's a very important relationship. No, I love the science behind sleep and just trying to hack sleep a little bit more. I'm not definitely not perfect at it. But just, you know, there's a lot of great research out there a lot of good, good books with sounds like you're, you're into this as well. But trying to create those systems, you know, your bedtime system, routine, getting into really good habits. So, it depends on what I'm doing. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, really starting to wind things down at night trying to, you know, prevent yourself from being on screens as much as possible, sometimes better than others at that. But then it's yeah, it's, you know, it's all of the things that we're told, right, like sleeping at a lower temperature, keeping your body cool. And, you know, I'm asked earplugs, again, I don't do this all the time. But if it's something that's important, that's coming up where I know, I really need that sleep, I'll focus on that. Really, specifically, because you can feel such I mean, it's so huge when you're getting really good sleep. It's incredible. Like, you feel like a superhuman. And I think a lot of us don't do that on a regular basis. And so we're just accustomed to kind of being this, you know, 75% of ourselves, and that's normal. But then when you actually do put in the work, and you're you're at that 100% It's incredible. So it's, again, one of the things I've easier to talk about than always doing, but that's something that's
Nick Legan 57:31
crystal that I think you became fascinated with the power of sleep. Um, we've always been like, Good Sleepers, you know, for the most part, but Kristen has really done a lot of reading and listening about sleep, sleep hygiene, and when we share a bed, so you know, I get to learn from her. I mean, I'm the aero nerd, and he's the sleep nerd. So you know, we each bring your own interest to the table, I guess. So.
Andrew Vontz 58:00
What's the best way to say arrow and God
Nick Legan 58:02
Abandon all hope?
Andrew Vontz 58:05
It's a joke. It's a joke. I'm sorry, like, yeah. Would this be would this be a podcast in 2023? If we didn't talk broadly about sleep science, and it wouldn't be a cycling podcast? Asked about being arrow while moving like it's trust me, if you're not into cycling, and you're listening to this, that was probably one of the best jokes you're gonna hear this entire year. All right. So I want to know what do you all what events have you said no, to? I'm always a part of how I find things that I'm curious and which probably totally fucks up my sleep, is I just go into YouTube wormholes. I used to do it as a journalist, and I found tons of interesting things to write about. And what does it say about me in social media is control of my mind and freewill. I don't know. But I have found some interesting things. And when it comes to cycling, it's taken me to things like as I mentioned, Atlas race, which just seems absolutely bananas to me. There's a YouTuber, Tristan rides bikes. I don't even know his last name. I want to get him on the podcast. He did that one. There's the thing that Chris case just did, I believe in Ireland, which seemed I had, yeah, that just seemed totally bananas. There are a lot of there are a lot of events like that. So they're starting to be this, this blurring between, just wow, that's a lunatic fringe RAM type of stuff in 1983. And that's just kind of the direction things are going and it's not just happening in cycling. So I'm sure you've seen an ultra running like the Moab 240 who had that bad idea. I don't know what's wrong with you. Yeah, but what events do you all look at and say, No way. I'm not We're not touching that. I mean, Nick, it just seems like you don't have an upper limit you did to her divide. I don't know what's wrong with you. But yeah, like what do you think what's what's like a heart already
Nick Legan 1:00:00
for yourself. And it's it to be honest, like, I don't want to do mega multi day, especially self supported events on road anymore. Like I just don't, you know, when they when they've done the trans America race. I just think, you know, the combination of sleep deprived cyclists plus motorist is just a bad one. And I'm not judging anyone who does it. But you know, we all have our own risk assessment that we have to undertake. And for me, that's just a hard No, but I'll do things like the 12 hour World Time trails championships, which is just a closed, it's on a loop, and you have a crew, you know, and like that, to me is super, super interesting. I've done that one twice. And there's part of me, it's like, well, maybe I should do the 24. But, um, and also,
Andrew Vontz 1:00:51
don't let them do it.
Nick Legan 1:00:53
Like for No, I haven't No, dig as much into the the big single track stuff, either. You know, tour divide is mostly like, basically like gravel, you know, it's just really long gravel. And Kristen has showed more interest in like, Colorado trail, like, I don't have a ton of interest in the Colorado trail, I'm pretty interested in Arizona Trail and like, having to hike the Grand Canyon, render him with a bike on your back, you know, and all that stuff. But to me, it's almost always just a safety concern. You know, and, and I'm willing to take on risks that I feel that I can manage your own, you know, like the idea of an itI in Alaska as I'm becoming more comfortable with that idea, you know, as I learn more from people who've done it, but you know, you're not, you're not worried about a car, someone on a cell phone barreling down on you, you know, and for whatever reason that just that risk seems bigger than I want to take. Mm
Kristen Legan 1:02:00
hmm. I think I don't know how to answer that. Because I think I've built my career on just saying yes to stupid things. Long, long events that people are like, Hey, we have this idea. We should do these two back to back races that are across the state, but it'll be awesome. And I'm like, great. Sign me up. I'm in this is sounds like super fun. A lot of fun. And then it's not. But yeah, I'm with Nick, I think anything on the road is pretty out of out of the question for me at this point. But and then, you know, beyond cycling? Yeah, I don't know. I, there's part of it. Like, there's a secret part of me that wants to do the Leadville 100, run. But my knees will probably never let me do that, thankfully. But yeah, I don't know, I think I go beyond the bike. And just these long events interests me in in other ways, too, because at least right now the bike feels really controlled. And I know my levels and my what I can do out there, I can kind of know my limits. And then other things, whether it's hiking or running, or you know, like kayaking, you know, whatever it is. That's a really big unknown for me. And I think that's fun when you don't know if you can do something. So I don't know, we'll see. But for now, bikes are pretty good.
Andrew Vontz 1:03:17
Now, this is something I've never done on this show before. And I don't want to put you on the spot. But I also kind of do want to put you on the spot. What is the quality that you admire most about your partner?
Nick Legan 1:03:32
Go first, the first thing that comes to my mind is Kristen has incredible capacity for work. She is She never sees daunted by the amount of work on her plate, whether that's professional, you know that the effort she puts into her to her family life, and then certainly the bike. Like, she can just rally, you know, and just double down. And I'm not built that same way. Like it's, it's harder for me to string that together. And I feel like I need bigger pauses, bigger, quiet times, between big efforts. And she she seems to be more resilient. So yeah, her capacity for work is mind blowing to me.
Kristen Legan 1:04:22
Yeah, where to start? No, I think. I think you know, almost the different side of it. Nick, you talked a little bit about some of your favorite things, being the community and getting to ride with people and meet people along the way. And I think that's like, I admire that because when I'm in a race, I'm like, so focused on you know, what do I need to do? It's a very selfish thing. I feel like my racing and, and the friendships that you've made on those big rides and the people you connect with and the communities you connect with. I think that's really cool. And I think it's something that is what makes these big events these long rides. have special because you have the time to really make that connection with people. So yeah, I'm going to try harder to do that in future events. Thanks, Chris. Everything's pretty sweet. Chris and
Andrew Vontz 1:05:13
I can relate to that. Yeah. Thanks, Andres. Good question. Great. I appreciate you both. Now, now, I appreciate you both being open to sharing that. And I was gonna say, Chris, and I can relate to that, just like being totally zoned in to what you're doing during a race. And in fact, my wife used to yell at me because when I would be, you know, I would be like mid pack and an elite master cyclocross race in the Bay Area, and she'd be there with my son, Sam, when he was a baby. And I would just like, not even I just couldn't even I didn't even know they were there. Right. And then I finally got, he's like, you gotta wait, you gotta wave when you come around. It's like, it's like, you know, I've like I've definitely like, I've like, wasn't on the podium. I had x professional athletes lapping me, I just was very focused and committed what I was doing. So over time, I, you know, I started a wave, but I wasn't racing for 24 plus hours. And, yeah, but thank you both so much for being here. And for being so open and sharing so much in this conversation. I really appreciate what you both are doing. It's incredibly inspiring. And I'm grateful that we had the chance to have this chat. So thanks for being here.
Kristen Legan 1:06:26
Thanks so much for having us. And yeah, getting to chat together. It's, it's, we haven't been able to do a podcast together like this before. So it's really cool to actually get both sides of the extender experience. So thank you.
Andrew Vontz 1:06:40
Yeah, you're You're welcome. Thanks for being open to doing it. I thought it'd be a fun thing to do. So I hopefully it was grayed out afterwards and let me know. Okay, so um,