Mitch Docker on Life in the Peloton, Life After the World Tour, Building a Content Empire & More

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Mitch Docker is the creator of the Life in the Peloton podcast and a former World Tour pro cyclist. Mitch raced the biggies including the Giro and Vuelta and rode for legendary squads including EF, Green Edge and Skil Shimano. He was best known as a leadout man, classics rider and road captain.

He’s equally well known for his highly entertaining storytelling, the highest-volume mullet the sport has seen since Laurent Brochard and a mustache a California Highway Patrolman would envy. I love Mitch’s podcast and I’m grateful to Peacham, Vermont’s proudest son, Ian Boswell for connecting us to make this interview happen.

You may have heard Mitch talk about cycling style, culture and racing for hundreds of hours on his pod and others, but this chat has loads of new material and surprising revelations. Cape Epic, Mitch’s insider experience as a leadout man, dad life, the allure of gravel, the importance of psychological training and preparation, leadership lessons and things Mitch learned in the World Tour that have helped him as an entrepreneur, areas where he has had to work hard in life after pro cycling and much more. It’s all here in this unprecedented interview. 

Today he advises and consults with businesses and nonprofits on high-impact storytelling strategies and coaches leaders to become high-performance communicators. Find him on LinkedIn or reach out to choosethehardway@gmail.com

In This Episode:

Mitch Docker Instagram

Life in the Peloton Website | Instagram | Twitter

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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn

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Choose The Hard Way is a Palm Tree Pod Co. production 

  • Andrew Vontz 0:00

    Don't have anyone that I've

    Brian Co 0:03

    I like it. Well, recording studio editing bay office, guest room when people come over, it's everything.

    Andrew Vontz 0:11

    Yeah. You know, I know that there are a lot of people out there wondering about the history of the Velo, where the tiny mic. Could you talk about that for a moment? Like?

    Brian Co 0:22

    Yeah, so, you know, it's kind of known as a tick tock mic. Made famous on that. So I was like, Okay, if I walk up with my microphone to a pro, who's all business, and I hand them this microphone, it's like getting into an argument with someone holding an ice cream cone, you just can't take them too seriously. So I got this Amazon, you know, microphone for like $7. And then I 3d printed the flag that goes around it. It's like a hard material. And then I put the logo, the velcro or the logo among other logos around it. So it looks kind of official, like a newsworthy thing. And then I actually film and then hand the person, the microphone, and I get their reaction, and every reaction is the same. They're like, Oh, my God, what is this? This is crazy. And then and then we get into it.

    Andrew Vontz 1:15

    Yeah, I'm definitely a big fan of the tiny microphone, I love seeing you represent what the? It's some of the biggest gravel events and other events in the world. And then I love your commentary that I see you doing with the tiny microphone in your hand. And I know another thing a lot of people are wondering, and, you know, once I found your channel, I love it. I love the content that you're putting out clearly a very high level of effort going into what you make, and you've been at it for a while. So how did you get started down this path? And what was your intention for the channel at the outset? What did you want to do?

    Brian Co 1:49

    Well, I got slow and bike races to the point where I was like, Okay, if someone's going to put their elbow into my hip and a quarter of a crit, and then I have to drive two hours to come home to mow the lawn. Is that even worth burning a weekend over? But no, seriously, in 2016, you know, I started a podcast. I'm from Southern California. So it was known as the SoCal cyclists podcast. And at that time, I, you know, I kind of looked to see what was out there and there wasn't a whole lot, it was pretty sparse. And so I had this crazy idea to interview just my friends who were very high level in Southern California. And I wanted to do 52 guests in 52, straight weeks. But the trick was to do it in person, not remote. This is before, like, you know, the pandemic and everything. So people would literally come over to the house, we'd record in my garage or living room or wherever. And then I once I hit that 52 Mark, I was like, Okay, I need a breather. And then I started doing other things to where I would always record on my GoPro bike races and things like that sort of like Williams brother style, except I wasn't winning, and then threw that on YouTube and then realized, like, if I can go on YouTube, make videos of bike races, not just me, but other people, and then sort of put that into a gritty behind the scenes narrative, I think that people would want to watch it. So my first unbound or was dirty Kansa. At the time, I did that, you know, I edited on iMovie just very basic, and it got a lot of traction. And then I started to go to more and more and more events. And then, you know, the thing is, I'm not a I'm not a vlogger I don't really make it about me. I try and bring the viewer into this sort of behind the scenes, not just the race, but what they eat, what they prepare, what they, what they how they dialed in their bike the day before. And then the interviews before and after people, I think like to know what's going on with that be a fly on the wall. So that's how it kind of got started. And, you know, I've been doing it ever since. And you know, we just had unbound not long ago, feels like yesterday, but that was that was a fun event. And you know, I didn't realize you could monetize it on YouTube. But once I, you know, hit those metrics, I'm able to, you know, pay first and then get paid later.

    Andrew Vontz 4:34

    So, is this your job?

    Brian Co 4:35

    No, it's not it's one of my jobs. But the my schedule works out so that I can do this for part of the year the rest of the year. I teach economics and psychology. But even then, like I'm burning days, to go to events like sea otter and things throughout the year. You know, and I grew up in Cycling family and in the cycling industry. So, you know, a lot of what I, you know, cycling is the only sport I've ever really known or followed, you know, maybe basketball here and there or the Olympics, really. But cycling is the one sport I can kind of nerd out on. And I attended No Well, so, you know, growing up, I was a shop kid and going on group rides at 12 years old and 13 were in those days, you could get dropped and no one's gonna wait up for you. And you have to just use your brain to figure out how to get home instead of a computer. And so I wanted to work in the bike industry forever. And I, you know, worked in shops here and there. But I wanted to also be an entrepreneur and create my own business, and do it in the most difficult way possible. So instead of working for another brand, I was like, I'll just start my own business. And so I rebranded SoCal cyclist, as Velo worthy, and you know Velo worthy creates passive income for me, because of not just the YouTube revenue, which, in my mind, I can't, I can't afford to rely on because I don't want to leave it up to the YouTube gods or the algorithm gods. So what I do is I actually partner with other cycling brands to either sponsor the content, or I freelance for other brands to run their social media or Tik Tok or Instagram. Because I'm already boots on the ground, it's, it's sort of financially cheaper for them to, to pay me to do that for them then fly their own people out plus, you know, I mean, specialized could hire a wedding photographer or wedding videographer, but they, I don't know if they would know who to talk to what questions to ask. They probably shoot better video than me. But it's one of those kind of serendipity by design things where I'm here, I can do this. And you know, all parties are hopefully happy.

    Andrew Vontz 6:57

    Yeah, there's been a bit of unbound talk on this podcast, I just had, you know, Boswell on, this isn't exclusively a cycling podcast, although, for all of my listeners, you know, there's been a lot of cycling content recently. And it's an area where I have deep curiosity and lifelong interests. And with Unbounce. Specifically, Brian, a lot of people were forwarding me your video from Unbounce. I mean, that's like a great compliment, of course, that you're putting out fantastic content, people are paying attention. And it seemed like you must have been on the go job, like 14 to 16 hours a day when you were on the ground there. So can you kind of talk through? How do you plan for an event like that? And then what is a day, like when you're on the ground and going for it?

    Brian Co 7:42

    Sure. So it actually starts before I even leave? You know, I sit down in my office, I type up a rudimentary Google sheet I have every day and pretty much almost every hour planned. There's some things I can't miss, like, you know, mandatory media meeting where they issue your credential. You know, I have, for specifically Unbound, it wasn't just the video, I was working with about seven other brands, plus athletes to I've come to this weird position of being a shepherd or host for pros who need assistance or need help or need to meet somebody. So I'm sort of this middleman, where a pro is like, Hey, I'm flying in, I know you're going to be there. Can I get a ride to Emporia and you know, my team will help take care of gas or something. And then that evolves into a more formal partnership. But the way I did it was, I created this Google Sheet, I created a shot list on Google Tasks on my phone, you kind of have the format, the race is actually the easy part. Because it's very linear. You know, it has a beginning, middle and end of your pre and post interviews. But it's all the stuff at the expo, it's all the stuff that you know, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face. And so when someone gets a flat tire, or they want to show off their new bike, or there's some, you know, pro licking an ice cream cone and wants to talk about it, you drop what you're doing in the moment, and then do that. So, you know, flew out there. I luckily had an assistant with me on the day of the race itself, has this partnership with local Jeep owners where they take media out in their tricked out Jeeps that it's sort of their unbound to they have walkie talkies in there and it's a big deal and we follow the race and track the riders and do a little bit of math and estimate the average speed and try and get as much of the action as possible. I tend to spend a lot of time in the pit stops and water stations where they actually get off their bike and it's sort of this weird f1 pitstop craziness. And then and then at the end It's always dramatic, especially this year with the 200. Finishing with the 100. I thought for sure there's going to be a crash. But thank goodness there wasn't. But you know, there's that whole thing too. It's a lot, it's a lot of prep. And it's a lot of equipment you bring that you never use. In the military, there's a saying called tours, one and one is none. So you always double up on everything in the hopes you only have to use one thing. So that you know, I'm carrying pounds of gear and you're right 12 to 14 hours a day, I plan my meals where I eat like a camel in the morning, just as much as I can possibly do it, and then skip lunch all day. And then by the time I get back to the to the house, I eat like a camel. Again, it's not the healthiest thing for three days. But you don't have time to sit down and eat before you know it's already three o'clock. And then you're like, oh, I'll just wait till you know, it's five and the expo shuts down. So I learned that at sea otter as well. Plus, you know, BW RS and a few other events.

    Andrew Vontz 11:07

    It sounds like you're applying a reverse intermittent fasting protocol. Maybe this will be the next thing.

    Brian Co 11:14

    Yeah, reverse intermittent fast. Like that. Yeah.

    Andrew Vontz 11:17

    Yeah, you heard it here first. So to again, to go back to this year's unbound. I have to imagine you've got your plan. As you said, everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face this year. What was unexpected or went wrong during the course of the three days that you were there and we're shooting for the

    Brian Co 11:36

    writers it was the mud. You know, there were course changes right up until a couple days before it did rain the night before. You know, I'm sitting in the house, we're strategizing. You know, athletes are there to you know, Alexi was there like, Oh, I hope it rains even more. So it could just pack everything down and people are making last minute tire changes. And I think the mud mixed in with the drama of the pitstop mixed in with the drama of the finish line. And then the and then the natural rivalries between the writers themselves. Those that's a combination of to me good content. I mean, I don't I don't try to sensationalize anything I don't. I don't create the narrative, I just capture it. In fact, one writer, you know, she messaged me at the on Instagram, she was like, hey, you know, I don't feel comfortable with the interview we just did. So can we take it down? And, you know, that sets a bad precedent if you're a journalist, you know, I mean, what if everyone listened to Lance, and never said anything? So I, you know, we had this back and forth, and I agreed to take it down. Because I didn't want to burn that social capital or that bridge with her. And she's a very well respected person in the gravel scene. So it's those kinds of small things that you learn each time, and you can hopefully level up each time. So that way, I don't make a fool of myself at the next event.

    Andrew Vontz 13:05

    What's been your favorite event to cover?

    Brian Co 13:09

    You know, everyone says unbound. But I actually like B WR. I live in Southern California, where I write is the BW our course. And for this year, it was a special event even though it's probably the most dangerous event. In terms of writer safety. It is something where it's almost like oh, it's such a hard man course. You're lucky if you survive it. And you know, it's not a it's not a true gravel race. In fact, this year is the first year anybody's wanted on a gravel bike every other year. somebody's done it on a road bike and won, at least on the men's side. But this year, you know, I hosted a bunch of athletes and photographers who stayed at my house. So it became sort of the unofficial house where, you know, we had you know, vans parked in the street, my neighbors are getting pissed. We're, we converted my garage into a mechanic shop. Fun fact about that race, Russell Fenster Wald, who won the race, broke his bike the day before, and he used a crux and so specialized came over, they borrowed my bike. You know, they said, speciallized will make this up to you if you loan him your bike. So they pulled the fork off, you know, put it on his bike, put gaffers tape on all my stickers, and then he ended up winning the whole thing. We did this big pad tie dinner, which is kind of a tradition. Before it comes from the World Tour. Alan Lim kind of invented that out of necessity living in Europe, when he was with RadioShack and the Garmin or EF team. And so I hired a chef to come in. There's like 30 people. And on the race itself. They're not BW or it's not known to be too friendly to media. In fact, they want to control their own media. So I was the lone guy in the car. That was given access. I had you know a driver or another shooter and a couple other media people shooting in my wife's Mazda's, you know, jumping out of the sunroof trying to take, you know, video of these writers in key moments where, you know, writers getting dropped on climbs and stuff. So, in that respect, you know, I, you know, I had a week off of work because it was spring break. So I just devoted that to BWI, or my kids, and my wife and me all slept in the same bedroom because Flavio needed her own room, and everybody's in their own bedrooms. And we all went out for ice cream afterwards. So it's kind of this fun party that it that in exchange, you know, I'm able to capture that. So it's this. It's not a quid pro quo, but it's something that's like it's just a fun event. So in that respect, to make long story short, BW er is I think my most favorite to be a part of

    Andrew Vontz 15:55

    doesn't really sound like a very passive income. Brian.

    Brian Co 15:59

    Yeah, no, well, I have a man I, I took the money from last year not to get super super into the financials. But all the money I make in in Velo worthy I put right back into Velo worthy, and I try not to spend any money, whether it's gas, or airplane tickets, or anything from from personal money. So, like, I just bought a new camera this year, based on the revenue I was getting, because my old cameras stuff $500 vlog camera, you know, I'm standing around people at races with, you know, 567 $1,000 cameras, and you get a little bit. You know, it's like when you go up to a bike race, and you're on a Schwinn, and you see all these Colnago is or something, it's, it's definitely a little intimidating, especially when, you know, impostor syndrome sets in and you're, you're in the scrum of photographers, and most everybody else is a cyclist. They all understand it. But there's some photographers that I just worship, and I look up to, and they've been in the game a long time, you know, and then there's people that I see weekend week out at event, people like Ben Delaney, I see it of every event. And we're always there. You know, Betsy Welsh is always there. We have this kind of cool community within a community of gravel, which is really cool.

    Andrew Vontz 17:18

    How many events? Are you going to a year? And how many days are you spending doing this? Like actually out events.

    Brian Co 17:27

    So I plan out my calendar, in advance, you know, I see if it syncs up with my family calendar, make sure there's no conflicts. I go to, gosh, this year, it's been WRC otter Unbound, I'm going to Leadville SPT, foco, fondo, mammoth tough, plus a couple other non gravel events that are more like community based events that I think would be really cool to capture. So I don't know maybe 1011.

    Andrew Vontz 18:01

    And I know there have been attempts, like flow sports, for example, attempted to cover the lifetime series last year. If people who are listening are familiar with flow sports, it's a streaming service, they have a bunch of different vertical apps for specific kind of niche sports such as pro cycling. So they tried to cover the lifetime series last year, it didn't really go well. But at the same time, and then they actually stopped the coverage about halfway through the series, I think after the attempted streaming unbound. Now, there are people like you, there's onroad on limited, there are a handful of other what I would call kind of micro media outlets that are doing a really fantastic job of bringing people inside the sport. At this point, though, you kind of have to know someone who knows someone who knows that people like you exist to go discover this media. And then what you do is a for example, at Unbound, my friends who are fans of the sport, they're all following it through Instagram stories and reels from people like you, the individual athletes, other brands, how do you kind of think about this media landscape? And where do you see it headed with I guess, with gravel specifically, because it is it's really hot from a participant point of view. It's getting even hotter with pros it's evolving in the media landscape is evolving in a really interesting way to where you micro media players actually have this outside significant role, because you're the only people really providing an inside look at what's happening at the races.

    Brian Co 19:38

    So I think flosports was very ambitious with the model that they wanted to do. I love Janelle And Frank, Andrew, the commentators, but when you put a paywall in front of it, and you treat it like a 10 hour road race, it's not that exciting. So you have to find another way to tell the story. And if one of those ways is sort of a up close as intimate, you know, mile deep and an inch wide method, I think a lot of people resonate with that rather than, like, what's the time split necessarily, or, you know, three hours of Sofia riding her bike by herself. Like, it's it's not you can't translate Tour de France style coverage into a gravel race because it's such a long and arduous event. And even in the pros, I mean, there were only seven left of the of the pro men at the end, and they're just rotating and working. So I think if you come at it with a different approach that you can cover the same event, but tell a very different and compelling and intriguing story that people can resonate with. It works I mean, you know, every every video I put up, there's at least one comment of and I always focus on the one negative instead of the tons of positive. Because I'm weird that way. But, you know, why can't you cover the mid packers? Why can't you cover the Masters people, we need you to cover more women's racing. And you have to understand it's, it's flattering because they think it's more than just me. But it's literally just me. And when you're on the road, you can't reverse can't go against the flow of traffic as much as I'd love to. And when the pros come, I start a stopwatch. And if I'm standing in a spot for 20 minutes waiting for the first woman, the pros are 20 minutes ahead, I have to leapfrog them to the next place where I want to shoot. So it's this weird dance of trying to I can't be all things to everybody. But what I can do is provide, I think valuable insight into the struggles that even the pros go through and say a pitstop, where someone who's a Completer is like, oh, yeah, I that same issue I did, I had that same flat, you know, I ran out a nutrition. And they can sort of relate to that in that respect. Right now gravel doesn't really have the same star power that World Tour race does. But I think a lot more people are knowing, you know who Keegan Swenson is, or, you know, who Peter Stetina is, and, and they're becoming these personalities within gravel, which some people may not like, because it kills the spirit of gravel, which is a whole other conversation. But some people just like to follow it. It's like the Boston Marathon, you do it, you do your PR you want to do the best you can but you're still interested, like, Oh, what was the winners time? And who was it?

    Andrew Vontz 22:35

    Yeah, that's good. They're always gonna be people making comments about what you could potentially do me personally, I'm not sure I need to see that mid Packer out there racing. I mean, you can go do it. If you want to experience it, I suppose. I'm not sure how exciting and dynamic that might be. I do always really enjoy seeing tech coverage, both professional athletes and have there tend to be a lot of really interesting setups with amateurs who just have a lot of money to spend on their on their bikes, right. Yeah.

    Brian Co 23:07

    So I do these bike check videos. So in addition to actually filming it for the YouTube, I'm simultaneously filming everything on my phone with a mount on top of the camera that goes immediately to social in in stories in real time, if we can get decent reception out there. And then also I do these bike check videos. And a lot of the nonprofit you know, the dentists and doctors have the nicest setups, you know, I was, I was interviewing, his name's Peter vacco. He he got second at Unbound, but he's a world tour guy who's on alphason and Quickstep playing kit, you know, great gray bibs and green just playing jersey, who's on a stock Canyon Grizzle with a mix of like altegra. And I'm like, Okay, if this guy can take what's marketed as their bike packing bike and race it, you know, next to the other guys on Kenyan who are on prototype. I don't even know if it's a grail or what what the name is they're on these prototype really fast looking machines, which I wasn't allowed to film. It's it's cool to see that contrast. I mean, I guess what you lack in horsepower you make up for in equipment for a lot of amateurs.

    Andrew Vontz 24:24

    And when you're on the ground, and you're in these really dynamic situations, I think particularly whether it's you have a series of interviews that you're trying to capture people's schedules, I'm sure shifting athletes have things they have to do before races and then during the race itself, as you pointed out, it's a really dynamic situation. You're relying on other people for transportation. Do you feel calm when all of this is going on? Or is this a pretty high stress experience for you?

    Brian Co 24:57

    So actually get more nervous at gravel event. Since then I ever did racing bikes, because when you're racing bikes, you only have to think about one thing, just getting to the start line and finishing but when I am responsible for other things, other other clients or brands, other people that I've texted with the night before, like, Hey, I'm going to interview you at the start line. And they're waiting for me. It It makes me so nervous. I have to use a porta Potti just like all the racers I'm standing in line, it no kit, just all my camera gear you know, like, this brings back memories, you know, the race day porta potties. But it is it is nerve racking. And once the race starts, though, it's like, everything's calm, because we're going but it's all the stuff that you are anticipating and planning and, you know, I had to you know, this year is unbound. It was raining off and on I had to grab like a volunteers plastic poncho to wrap around the cameras. So my, my microphone wouldn't wouldn't blow out. So I get nervous. It's it's very nerve wracking. There's a lot on the line in my life, because you know, I have a family, I have kids, every minute I spend away from them is, is a minute that I can't I have to make it productive. And the question I always ask myself is, you know, how much is too much? Especially when it comes to cycling. I mean, there are people that spend their whole lives in the sport, trying to make a name for themselves or, or make the sport better. And, you know, I was having this I was in LA, just yesterday, on this ride with my family, and they're like, how's your mental health in this? How is your cycling and they're dropping me on these climbs? And I'm like, Guys, I haven't really written since before unbound. And they're like, well, you should take your bike to the races then and ride around or do the 50 or the 25. Because, you know, you're you're traveling and you're eating crappy, you know, airport food, and it just takes a toll. So I don't I don't I know, some people are like, well, the sky's the limit. But in my mind, I have a sort of this finite thing where I can say, Okay, this is this is it. And it could be a monetary thing. Or it could be a I'm just, I'm just too tired. You know, there's this, there's this great quote, and I know I'm gonna butcher it. But Kurt Vonnegut was at this party with a hedge fund manager where he talks to John Bogle who wrote catch 22 Kurt Vonnegut's like, hey, you know, the hosts of this party, made more money makes more money in a day than you made off your book. John's like Yeah, but I have something that he'll never have enough. And that

    Andrew Vontz 27:52

    but when you think about this finite amount of time that you have that you can put into this project, and how old are your kids,

    Brian Co 27:58

    nine and five, so they're not in their school for summer is today there. They just had their little last day of school pictures, they're off to school and pick them up on their last day. We're gonna celebrate you know, and like, a lot of times like I the work really begins when I get home from these events. You think it's done at the event but you get home and it is a race against your fellow editors and content creators. My goal is to be the first video done so when somebody on Mondays googling race results or googling unbound it's the first thing so we're editing on the airplane we're editing in the layover. We've got you know, I was with other media people on the same flight and we're just like cranking stuff out. It's kind of funny to watch because I'm sure the people next to us in the plane just wanted to sleep.

    Andrew Vontz 28:53

    What do you think the key search terms are for something like Unbound,

    Brian Co 28:57

    unbound 2023 unbound race results unbound? Visit you know it's all the all the things that people who aren't there are just searching so that way the algorithm Gods just it serendipitously shows up in people's feeds. So, you know if cuz I could sit on it for a week, but then I might not get the amount of traffic. So it's also a race within a race.

    Andrew Vontz 29:24

    What's your take on what happened in the shoot at unbound and again, we're going pretty deep here we I talked about it a bit in the Boswell episode, and we got his first person accounting of what went down but as someone who was there, could you describe for the average person who doesn't have familiarity with gravel racing or that scene like what happened? And what do you think should happen? So

    Brian Co 29:49

    for the, for the race itself, you have the 200 pros and the 100 pros who start behind but the 200 Pros are pretty much going twice as fast Fast as the 100. And so there is a single finishing shoot where the writers will cross the line, unaware that they're mixed in with the 200 finishers. And so this year's race, it was a seven up sprint. But I have the footage where writers who are finishing the 100 in the same amount of time, I think it was right around 10 hours. They're coming across the line. And they had no idea that there's a full on sprint for the win and one guy is like taking a selfie. As he rolls across the finish line there for a part. Keegan kind of snuck through found a hole to go around. Peter gets second he starts yelling at the finish line. I cannot pass you know too many people blocking and he's right you know it could have cost him the wind lock he got third he launched this Lachlan Watney launches, huge attack. And I think a couple things should happen before something worse happens. Luckily, nobody went down in a crash. But you open up the lane, you make a separate finishing shoot. But unfortunately, the city of Emporia can't give the permits to provide double lanes on the finishing area. The other option is you go to the start where there are signs of estimated finishing times. For the people lining up for the 100. You go up to the 10 hour mark and you make an announcement Hey, you are estimated to finish right around the pros. As you finish, be aware, you're tired as well, you put a hard day in, but just look around you. In case one guy was talking to is like, hey, take the people who are coming in, right around the the finish of the 200 and have them like hanging out to the side, give them a beer, give them a t shirt, or windbreaker you know coupon whatever, have them cheer the pros as they race for the finish the last 200 yards and then get back on the bike and do it have like a little corral area for that. So I don't know the the one true solution but I do know that the finish did affect the results in a way that you don't see it other races. So that's sort of the controversy.

    Andrew Vontz 32:19

    Brian, you mentioned you teach psychology What have you learned about people who thrive at these events versus people who get crushed by what happens in the events by things like, Oh, I'm gonna have to run in ankle deep mud for 45 minutes. So who thrives and who kind of implodes.

    Brian Co 32:38

    So the people that thrive in the pros, I mean, they all have a job to do. For a lot of people, it's their full time job. For other people, it's sort of their side hustle like me. But I find that the people who have the biggest success are the people who are methodical when it comes to their preparation. So that way, they don't expend any mental stress dealing with filling bottles, or making sure their kid is clean. And then once you have all those things in place, I find that people mentally who have this way about them, they treat it like a game, they gamify it, where it's like they can they have the ability to zoom out and go, Okay, this isn't the end of the world. I'm running in a field with cows, and mud. And I could be sitting in an office somewhere, but this is the life I chose. And this is fun. And if they gamify it and they just kind of laugh. Like I saw a lot of pros like this guy, Larry waterbase, who came from the Giro d'Italia, arguably one of the hardest races in the world. In unbound. I see him on the race course. And he's smiling at me. He's like laughing, and he's caked in mud. He's out of contention. But I'm like, Okay, that is something that's a winner to me. Whereas other people, people, it's like, god dammit, I hate this. And they, they talk themselves out of it. They talk themselves out of when they do a little bit of soul searching, and they're doing that, like, look in the mirror where they stare at themselves. And they're like, do I want to be here? Do I want to do that? That will that will take over and that will set in and then by the time they get to the first aid station, which was mile 79. They throw in the towel because they're like, yeah, do I really want to do more of this? I'd rather I'd rather sit down and have a beer. I don't blame them. But that's the difference that I see.

    Andrew Vontz 34:30

    In Brian cycling, as you mentioned, it was something that was part of your family life growing up. It's now part of your family's life. And it's something it's clearly very important to you. What do you get out of cycling and what has it taught you about life?

    Brian Co 34:46

    I think cycling represents freedom. It represents choices. You know, my my parents had immigrated to this country. And my dad taught me my brother and my cousins how to ride a bike on this Same day. So he took all of us on this hill pushed us down it. And, you know, ever since then, like, I've just always been a part of the sport like I was, I'm the youngest out of my, my family, my older brother raced in Northern California. I did my first bike race when I was eight years old. When I was 12 years old, I did the Davis double century and thought I was gonna die. And I'm thinking like, why would I'm a parent now, I would never let my kid do a double century when they're still in elementary school. But in those days, you just did it. And we were all coached by the same person who comes from this old school mentality. And you know, those days you get dropped. They leave you, you know, I got my bike put in a tree just as a hazing thing. And so going from that, to a world where cycling's at least in gravel is more inclusive. It's everybody's welcome. It's all bodies on bike is all these things. It's like, wow, cycling has changed in my own lifetime. A lot. And one of my relatives is like, Man, when we were juniors, we probably had more in common with a 50 year old than 50 year olds now do with juniors because of the technology that's changed in the way people approach riding bikes. So I think it represents freedom. You know, that's the noble thing to say the realistic thing to say is I don't really know how to do anything else. And I just love cycling, like the Tour de France is coming up. I'm so excited for it. You know, I watched this Netflix show, the series on the tour last year, and I'm like, hooked. I'm like, still hooked to this day. I feel like a little kid so much fun.

    Andrew Vontz 36:46

    Yeah. And Brian, as you mentioned, the sport has changed substantially during the time that you've been involved. And now more than ever, and you're one of the people who's making that change happen through what you're doing with Velo worthy. It's been awesome to have you here today and to get to have this conversation and I love the content that you're putting out. And I'm grateful that you made time to connect and that we both got to kind of practice rolling with it today because as we know, we had some technical difficulties at the beginning. So this conversation is a bit shorter than normal, but we're both present to what's happening and we made it happen.

    Brian Co 37:23

    Thank you so much, so much. This is so much fun. I love it.



Andrew Vontz90