Pt. 2 - Paris-Roubaix Winner Alison Jackson on the Tour de France Femmes, the Psychology of Winning, Bison Farming & More
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Paris-Roubaix Femmes winner, Olympian and current Canadian national road race champion Alison Jackson is back for her second appearance on Choose the Hard Way to talk about Tour de France Femmes and more. Alison is a major favorite for a stage win and her EF Education Tibco-SVB team is expected to animate the race. Alison is well known for her work as a creator and storyteller and you can find her on Instagram @aliactionjackson.
This episode is a collab with Spencer Martin, the sheriff of Valmont bike park, a co-host of several cycling podcasts on the WEDŪ network and the author of the best pro racing analysis newsletter, Beyond the Peloton, which you can find at https://beyondthepeloton.substack.com/. Like Voltron coming together, Spencer and I co-host the Beyond the Peloton podcast where we analyze the latest races and happenings in pro cycling, coin strategic moves like the reverse Geraint Thomas and provide a perspective you won’t get anywhere else.
In my first interview with Alison we talked about her rise as a pro and storyteller and you can find that episode everywhere you listen at and at choosethehardway.com.
In this episode we got deep on how she forged a race-winning mindset on the bison farm where she grew up, how she’s approaching the Tour Femmes, her thoughts on leadership and team building and more.
LISTEN NOW: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, Google Podcasts, Stitcher
Choose the Hard Way is a podcast where guests share stories about how hard things build stronger humans. Sign up for the newsletter to get the story behind these stories updates and more. If you’d like to suggest a guest or say hello, DM @hardwaypod on social or send an email to choosethehardway@gmail.com.
Host Andrew Vontz has spent more than 25 years telling and shaping the stories of the world’s top performers, brands and businesses. He has held executive and senior leadership roles at the social network for athletes Strava and the human performance company TRX. His byline has appeared in outlets like Rolling Stone, Outside magazine, The Los Angeles Times and more.
Today he advises and consults with businesses and nonprofits on high-impact storytelling strategies and coaches leaders to become high-performance communicators. Find him on LinkedIn or reach out to choosethehardway@gmail.com
In This Episode:
Alison Jackson Instagram | Team Website
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Andrew Vontz LinkedIn
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Spencer 4:15
everybody welcome back to the Beyond the peloton Podcast. I'm Spencer Martin, author of The beyond the peloton newsletter I'm here with Andrew Vons, host of the Tuesday our Tuesday Hardway podcast and Alison Jackson winter of 2023. Perry, rube a fems. Andrew, do you want to say a quick word about your podcast before we get into our conversation with Allison?
Andrew Vontz 4:36
Yeah, choose the hard way is a podcast about how hard things build stronger humans, and how the hard things in life are the most fun things besides dance, which is also a very fun thing. And if you follow the show, you know I've had Allison Jackson on choose the hard way. Be sure to go check that interview out to hear about Allison's life times. And we're going to go deep on pro bike racing here today of course but you can find chooses the hard way everywhere you listen at choose the huawei.com and at Heartway pod on social comm check us out. And we also just had an Boswell on this week who was a frequent dance collaborator with Allison
Spencer 5:18
and Hello. So you want para Bay. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about your goals later in the year. I just needed I just listened to your episode with Andrew. I need I say you mentioned you're from Canada, a farm in Canada. I feel like you guys underplayed it. I look this place up. It is unbelievably far north like it must have been a brutal environment that you grew up in. Like were you cycling outside at all in the wintertime? Tell me a little bit more about your upbringing in this absurdly rural absurdly far north Canadian town.
Alison Jackson 5:51
As you I hope you didn't look up for it vermillion for vermillion is actually like really far like in the north west corner of Alberta. I'm like, I'm like just east of Edmonton. So so we're still it's still north, but But it's more like central Alberta.
Spencer 6:09
I think of Calgary though is so far north and I'm like Edmonton is further north. Oh my god. It's like it's almost. Is it just like negative 40 all winter?
Alison Jackson 6:21
Well, it, it literally can be yes. But not all winter. Okay. It's usually more around like minus 20. So you can still do activities. Oh,
Andrew Vontz 6:31
man. Yeah, that's practically a song. Yeah.
Spencer 6:34
You actually have to worry about
Alison Jackson 6:35
you just you just get the ice crystals stuck your eyelashes that you have to, you know, diffuse every so often so they don't your eyes don't glue close because of the cold.
Andrew Vontz 6:48
I think goop has a product that handles that. So Alison, I'm curious. Do the bison stay out year round? Are they good to go in that? Those kinds of conditions? I know we have a lot of bison fans out there buffalo fans in Boulder, right?
Alison Jackson 7:02
Yeah. The I mean bison. They're just they're, you know, naturally a wild animal to this area. So absolutely, they can take care of themselves. In the winter. They're built for that they were doing that long before we tried to care for them. And mostly on my farm, my ranch. The Bison just roam. We just got a lot of land a lot of free, free roaming rain for the bison just to keep to themselves. And yeah, they're just like glorious animals out out, pushing the snow around.
Spencer 7:32
I believe a lot of the bovine in North America, what we think of his cows have been bred with bison like hundreds of years ago to then give them that Hardy gene so they can stay out in these super cold North American winters. But don't fact check me on that. But I like the story.
Alison Jackson 7:49
I'm actually already gonna squish that theory. That doesn't happen. It's like basically, I mean, one time, I think we had, you know, like a byes and get loose and then and then there was a buffalo baby made. But it ends there. They can't reproduce after that. So it actually this Yeah, it just end of the line there. And even cows now they actually still like, if you're a cattle farmer, you have to really take care of your animals like over the winter, make sure they've got like, indoor space that they can run around or you have to like, really check on their water and feed and everything you've got to there's a lot of like, hands on stuff you have to do. So we always say the bison is like the lazy man's cattle because he actually don't need to do anything with them.
Spencer 8:36
Interesting. So Andrew and I were talking about this before you came on do you live and we interviewed Kristen Faulkner in her beautiful palatial Spanish mansion earlier this year. Do you live full time in Europe? Are you in Canada and then you just fly over there to race throughout the season?
Alison Jackson 8:55
No, yeah, I yeah set up set up shop over over in Spain in Drona. And yeah, I mean, I always say I have like three temporary homes and and one of that is like still at the at the farm and my family farm where all my mail gets sent and then I have another place I stay Abbotsford BC so just outside of Vancouver which really is my favorite place in the world to ride and my favorite place to train and get lots of great roads and terrain there and friends from university and friends from the cycling community and then yeah, basically all your from you know, February to when the season ends September I'm, I'm in Europe. And yeah, just flying in and out of Drona to the races and back. Yeah, just send up a nice nice Spanish causa live in
Spencer 9:48
nice and so do you train do you have to train a lot back at the family farm? Are you mostly in Vancouver when you're doing your Offseason training?
Alison Jackson 9:57
Yeah, mostly in Vancouver. Um, but I do a lot of Alberta box rides when I am out visiting the farm. And when I say Alberta box ride because everything in Alberta so gritted for like the farmlands, it's just like 90 degree turns all the time. And the roads are there 75% of the roads are gravel in my area. If from my farm if I start riding on the paved road and take every the first possible right turn on a paved road, the smallest lap I can make is 150k.
Andrew Vontz 10:36
How's the wind out there?
Alison Jackson 10:38
Yeah, it's, it's the direction is always a headwind.
Andrew Vontz 10:43
Yeah, it's actually Spencer and I both grew up in the Midwest in the US where I mean, it's the same thing. It feels like whatever direction you're riding, when you head out for a ride. It's relatively flat. Although alleged, we've been doing some investigations of the geography where we're from today. They're allegedly 1000 foot high hills at this race we're doing in the fall. We don't believe that. Nonetheless, it seems like it's windy. Every direction you ride when you're in Missouri or Kansas?
Alison Jackson 11:09
Yeah, yeah, I feel like when I'm out on the ride, like, in the summer, I'll wear headbands and earphones and whether I actually play music or anything in the earphones. Basically, it's just like cut that wind noise because I think asker that's one of the most exhausting things or writing in like the open planes just like the wind in your ears.
Spencer 11:27
i Yeah, I'm like getting flashbacks to this. I used to worry actually a lot about like hearing loss from the wind. And then now that I don't live in a wind tunnel, I don't worry about it as much but it is like really like can be really loud in your ears just nonstop. There's like stories of like settlers going crazy because of the wind. Like they just start hearing voices because the wind is just like in their ears all the time. And I buy it because it is nuts. And Ian Boswell was saying slanderous things about Kansas writing Did you recall this Andrew on your podcast? And and I kind of support him it is it is brutal. i This probably why you're so good. Allison, because you're out at eBay. It's everyone thinks it's miserable. And you're like, well we get turns this is there's a curve in the road. This is like easy for me. I'm not, I'm not on a straight road 400
Alison Jackson 12:17
Actually, that is I plan my routes by trying to either like get as much elevation as I possibly can. So I'll find like one ravine and then just tried to like ride in it and out and then in it again, but like on different roads but it's so far in between that you can get like through the ravine and on the other side, or I'm looking at the map and I'm just trying to find any road that curves a little bit and literally it's just gonna be this like really wide bend in the road but I will ride like 50k just to get this one little bit and and be like whoo
Spencer 12:52
but it's funny because Vancouver I'd say complete opposite of that. That's like a cycling hub. Probably super interesting riding you said is that your favorite place to train even more so than Toronto? Oh, totally.
Alison Jackson 13:02
Yeah, because and like in Abbotsford so just outside you got tons of country roads so you can and it's quiet so quiet small country roads where the grids are much closer together like the side roads that you can take them in Alberta where it's going to be like miles at least a mile so you can take another turn but yeah here there's so many different options to ride little you know different ways to get to where we want to go but then you've got like a really great like classics course of hills where they're going to be like a que or a little less or a little more but then really steep and you can just like hit up all these like climbs a ton in an area near Fort Langley. But then you got like bigger mountains and you've got like North Shore mountains like on Vancouver that are like long climbs that you can do but there's like you know like the three big climbs out there like to the ski hills that are right close together. So you've got options then out like more in the valley you got tons of of different climbs and riding that you can link them all together. And then tons of the gravel roads in mountain biking and the the forest service roads you can go and explore that or you know, a pretty good gravel and steep or whatever, there's just such a range and then but you're always like never too far from home. Great coffee shops along the way. Yeah, I just there's so many options. Yeah, I really like like the riding here.
Andrew Vontz 14:33
And Allison, are you on the mountain bike or gravel bike that much during the road season?
Alison Jackson 14:40
Yeah, I'll I'll ride the gravel bike quite a bit. I mean, you know before the there's the whole, you know, specific genre of gravel riding, I would take my bike and I would ride anywhere, you know, on gravel and whatever I mean, even around my farm, it's actually really nice that we have, you know, specific gravel bikes now. With the wider tires that just allow, like, you don't like cut down, cut into the gravel so much because in Alberta the gravel is like, really soft and very pebbly. So you just basically with a skinny tire you'd like, you know, be slicing down to the ground in it. But yeah, I wouldn't be seen there. There's tons of just like, I just love exploring or seeing something new or riding the new road. And there's tons of different ways you can do that. And, and, I mean, really, anybody can do it. It can be easier and a little faster and a nicer ride if you have, you know, a more specific equipment for it like a gravel bike or a mountain bike. But yeah, I just I love bikes. I love riding anything.
Spencer 15:40
And so just to set the stage a little bit or set the scene. So you when Perry Bay earlier this year, it's a big deal. You've probably talked about it at nauseam, we won't make you walk through that, you know, step by step, but just to give the listeners a little bit of background, if you're not familiar. You know what I would say that's probably what the second biggest race on the calendar third biggest race, like if you do Tour de France, tour, Flanders pay rube a probably would be tied for second, then maybe the Olympics. So a really big race. Can you just walk us through a little bit about going into like what type of rider you are like, Were you expecting to be a contender there? And then as the race unfolded like, did you go into it thinking I think I can win this? Or did you kind of get into the break? I don't think we saw the break form. I think the TV coverage came on in the break was because I turned the TV on. I was like, Oh, wow, I don't think this is coming back. It didn't come back. But can you like that before going into that race? Like, were you expecting to be a contender to win? Or did you that kind of like happen, you know, as the break was formed, and you're like, Well, I'm up here. I'll try to win now.
Alison Jackson 16:50
Well, no, in the I've always been, like a rider as a feature writer that could do well in this race for the first two editions, like, yeah, just 24th and then 13. So like, you know, in the Yeah, I'm the type of writer that like suits this core. So just be like I thrive I do really well in tough conditions. So and then I'm a great like, classic cobbled rider one day races are also great. If it's going to be harder for others, it's better for me. And then you know, if it comes down to if it's a hard race, and it comes down to a smaller group, and then it's a sprint, then it's also like those are that's, you know, when I can can win bike races. So yeah, always, always, maybe not the top out in our favor, but always on the teams that I've been on been, you know, the favorite writer for that team or an outside favorite coming in into this race. Like, I mean, you have to be able to back yourself if you if you don't think that you can win a race from the start, then you're really disadvantaging yourself. Even just with the mentality, the winner mentality, you have to have to go into a race in order to win. And this race Oh, I always, I mean, I probably think I can win a lot of races. And that's with and that's the attitude that I would take into the race. And then you still have to play out how the race is gonna go and interact with each, you know, situation an opportunity that you get, but coming into Perrier Bay, like it, the team when I signed with, with EF, education, Tibco SVB, they, from the very beginning, had basically picked us as a key race for me for the year. It had been, you know, set up on my training peaks is just like the key race for the spring, there's a lot of other races that are in the spring that I wanted to target to win. But when we got down to it, you know, I hadn't accomplished those goals yet. And so I think, you know, coming to Perry Ruby, I really had this like burning fire of like, been, I really wanted to win, you know, one day classic and hadn't done that yet. And I think that yeah, it really just like built up some sort of my tenacity, or my, I guess, like Courage to to be in the action of the race and Perrier Bay. So yeah, the thing is to utter your base, so much is out of your control in this race, you know, the mechanicals of crashes, the flat tires, the crashing there. So all these things are just heightened. There's there's a higher chances of any of these things that can happen. And I mean, the first year I crashed two times, was 24th. The second year crashed once and was 13. And I just thought like, if I have a race where I have no crashes and I have a clean run, then for sure I'm going for the win. And that's always what I believed going into this race. So and then I think just from like, watching how the season had played out before, and just seeing like how dominant of a team st works is and And our team plan and a lot bit, a lot of the time been to, you know, kind of wait for the chemo MC moment and then hope we can, you know, like make it when another team kind of sets the pace. And it just really wasn't working. It wasn't working for us, it hasn't been working for other teams. And so coming into pure Ruby, I just, it's a race that if you can get ahead, we see this a ton in the men's race that that early breakaways or people who ride the breakaway can actually last quite a long ways. And I think for this year, for the women, we had the our course was longer than it had been. So we added this, you know, longer sort of 15k lap before getting into the cobbles. And it really set the race up that, that we could set something up earlier that a breakaway could go. In previous editions, we basically did all these fast crit labs before going straight into the Cabo. So everyone's racing for positioning the whole time, nothing was gonna get away, it was just so fast and crazy. And then you get into the calls, and it's just, you know, again, a positioning race and fast and crazy. So coming into Yeah, 2023, figuring that actually just telling all my teammates, like, we need to be in that in that breakaway or trying to make it happen, because because that's the best way to sort of get get ahead. For me, I am really good in the chaos and then positioning, so I didn't need to be in that front breakaway in order to make it when, you know, the hard parts were going to happen. But I didn't want us to miss out on it. And at that point, I also just, I just wanted to make the race happen. I wanted to be in the action. I didn't want to wait, you know, for for anything to happen. And so yeah, when the moment came, basically, you know, I think, you know, we had done a couple small laps, and then right on to the, to the big horse, we came out of the Start town and it's a bit technical. Before getting on to the big lap, and that was when Yeah, the the break, went I bridge to it, and then just started rolling. And that was it. It had had a rider for most of the teams. And so everyone just sat up and and yeah, let it go. And once you know, everyone was really committed to it. And once we had the like five and a half minutes, then it was like, okay, yep, this is this now, it we're not not saving anything for, you know, you know, trying to make it when the group comes back to us. This is the tactic that we're going with, I'm gonna invest totally in that this is going to be the race winning move. This is the opportunity that I have for myself. And then yeah, just Yeah. rode hard tried to motivate the others by example by just writing. And yeah, then, well, we made it.
Andrew Vontz 22:51
I listen to a question for you that I bet is top of mind for a lot of people who are watching unchained right now or who have finished the series and Spencer and I had been doing a series taking a look at unchained. But if you watch Unchained, you would think that the only thing that's happening on the communications happening on your radio with your team director is just the team director screaming go go go at you. Is that actually what's happening? Or is anything strategic being communicated on your radio with your DS or teammates?
Alison Jackson 23:24
Yeah, I mean, when I got on the break the it's my teammates. First, I would see that I'm there I radio to the team card, just letting them know that I'm the one on the break. My teammates are saying yet, you know, no one's chasing, that's good. But the comments I get from my DS was like, awesome. What are you doing? Why are you the one in the breakaway? That was not my role. So I was getting the negative feedback like, this is too early or whatever, but it for my race feeling. Yeah, take out my radio. My race feeling was just like, No, this is I believe that this is going to be a good thing is you know, the great makeup of riders. And then and then later, you know, when we're getting five minutes, then the DS comes back to me just being like, this is a great move. Yeah. I knew that. Right. So then, yeah, and then really like the, at that point, you know, we're so far ahead from the peloton. I wouldn't be able to hear anything from my teammates only just from the car, their their radio antenna has, you know, a further reach. And then, you know, it wasn't until like the team car could come up to my group that really you can sort of communicate a little bit like that and then and then more so it was just like I knew the course really, really well from recons and from a lot of study so knowing like where the cobbles are and the different notes and stuff we have on our like, you know, head unit on the bike. So then really it's just like the team card giving me information of what's happening behind so like, you know the the gap starting to come down what's happening in the back. Oh, there's a rash, oh, there's these different attacks. And then, you know, also I was getting a lot of feedback about Allison, you're working too much. Like you're doing too much, you're doing too much. But the thing is, you know, that's from the team car, what they can see, but they can't, you know, they don't know how I'm feeling. And also, I really had to trust my race instinct at the time and knowing that I really believed that I could ride real hard and ride in the front in the moments that I chose, and still be able to. Yeah, you know, try to do something in the final. But, you know, a lot of times, probably a lot of the girls in the, in that Breakaway, we're being told from the directors, like, don't do any, any more than someone else don't do any more than someone else. Well, if everyone's being told that, and this happens a ton in women's racing, where everyone's being told that people start negative racing, or riding, skipping turns, and then the breakaway dies, they get caught, and then they're left with nothing. And I know this is a trend in women's racing, I know that I was one of the strongest in the group. So I was going to show that I was going to give more than enough effort. So then all the other girls, well, if they're still doing less than me, but they're still writing quite well, we're going to make it and then yeah, the group did get smaller and smaller. And then you know, try to determine whether it's better to be in the group or be solo, I mean, to come into the Velodrome solo, you know, that you've got the win anytime you come in, in a sprint, there's always just like, the chance of winning is less. If you're, if you're solo, the chance of winning is very high. And whether I believe I'm the best burner in the group or not, it's still just a gamble with, you know, timing and positioning and whatever else. But yeah, most of the the feedback then from the, the team, just through radio communication was just what was happening behind and what the gap, you know, where the gap was going, which is important information, because at one point, you know, that I'm being told, we're not looking back so often. But then being told me know that they're, you know, nine seconds behind, and then you look back, and you see that they're so close. And that was like the moment where I was like, No way, you know, 5k to go, I'm not letting this. I'm not letting all the good choices that we made for 140k. Just go down the drain in the last five. And so that was when we put in a real big dig, and then started to hear that, you know, the gap was going out again, and then just, you know, relaying that to the rest of the girls in the group, just like this is our moment we have to arrive. And then yeah, after that, when it comes down into the sprint, also my DSA you know that, in the end, you just have to allow me to think less. And that was, you know, my motto for the day was Don't, don't think just do. And so, yeah, then when it comes into the final bit of the race, you just have to trust and you know, the experience of getting a good bike racer and feeling out the race and then yeah, trying to take the win.
Spencer 28:05
Yeah, cuz Andrew and I both thought you were doing too much work. But it's actually I don't know if that logic totally holds up. And I think about it because yeah, if you don't do all that work, you guys get caught lotto Capecchi wins like lotto capac it's like the end of Avengers end game where it's like, I've seen this a million times. There's only one way this works where we can beat him like, she's the same way if you guys just go to the Velodrome. She's gonna beat you. If you don't pull enough she catches you beat you like the only way you could have won. That is the way you want it. So you were we You were right, we were all wrong in the end. It about it is kind of funny. I will Andrew read my mind. I was going to ask you like, the night before, did a director sit down with you and say like, you know, we've gone through the last 50 editions of Ruby and it actually does help a lot to be in the early Breakaway, like that's how I met Haman one and beat Tom Boonen back in 2016, I believe one of those years. Like, did anyone give you that information? Or were you just kind of left on your own to figure out like, I think the breakaway is a good place to be at this race.
Alison Jackson 29:08
Yeah, I think I mean, that was the the ideas that I came to the team with, I really wanted to push that to my teammates to like believe that, like you got to be in the action of the race. And I think that's the thing with bike racing is, is I mean, we love a bold winner, you know, someone who like, risks at all, you know, risks, losing an order, or risks losing an order to win. And, you know, it's so emotional when you see someone who has done that, and they get caught, you know, just before the line or whatever. And, and, I mean, that almost happened to us. But, I mean, I think like, part of it is maybe you know, with my experience of being in the bike races for so long, I'm not satisfied with just like a top 10 result. And so I would rather you know, be first or be 18th EP can be 30 If both have written an exceptional ride. And, you know, I think that's like, also, you know, if you have a team that you're that you're really proud of writing for, or you know that there's going to be other athletes that can back you up, as in, you know, I can risk it totally in this moment. And know that, you know, I'll have a teammate later that can, if it comes back together, they can take advantage of the situation. But yeah, I think just like the, I don't want to be a bike racer that just waits or just is paxville, or just, you know, does good enough, I want to do something that's exceptional, or, you know, amazing or tells a great story or, or, yeah, rides with, you know, passion and heart. And then you know, then it come, a lot of times, it won't work out, you know, you you might have a great ride, and you won't get the result. But you have to, you know, be bold, or take chances in order to get, you know, something as special as a period of a win.
Andrew Vontz 31:03
Wow, I feel so pumped up right now, I feel like I could run through a wall honestly, like, that's, I feel very inspired. That's amazing. And I'm curious, Allison, as you head into this race, was there anything that you did different in your preparation relative to previous years? Like you talked about your mantra that day was Don't think just do? And was that new or different? Or was there something different about your psychological or physical training as you had it into the event?
Alison Jackson 31:32
Yeah, you know, like, I came into the race healthy, like Perry bays at the end of two months of hard racing. And we also had a year of, like, tough weather. And, you know, people getting sick and the crashing and all of that a lot of times you get to the end, you get to pick your brain, your body is already so rattled, and yourself to try to pull out one great, you know, performance. And I did have a crash like earlier, you know, in Drenthe. Ah, so that would have been about four weeks before four or five weeks before this race. And yeah, I had to get, you know, bunch of stitches in my knee and had to do some recovery and stuff. And so yeah, I still had you know, little the stitches row, but like, it was still just like a, not like a fully closed wound, even by the time we got to Perrier Bay. But otherwise, like, health was really good. And we had, like, you know, got to have a full team of six starters. Or were like, at that time. So you know, some teams are just like, really, like, pull on through with their reserves. So I mean, that that's just like, yet, you can't predict that that will, that will happen, that you'll come to a race feeling the way that I did, but I think a lot of it too, like. I mean, racing, it's so much. It's a lot about what you're bringing physically, but it's also what you're willing to put yourself through mentally. So, you know, are you going to stick in it? Are you going to be tough? Will your reactions be you know, your self talk be positive? Or is it going to be negative or tiredness or whatever. But I think a lot of it like, you know, I had a lot of big goals for me and for the team through the spring, and we didn't hit any of them. I there's other races earlier that I taught targeted, that I really wanted to perform well in or go for the win. And just like, yeah, missing the mark. And all of that losing actually made me so frustrated. And I think it really just like, you know, built up that fire that like I was going to I was going to be a part of the action or I was going to ride this breakaway so hard because I wanted to do if I could control anything. I just wanted to ride so hard to like, make it happen. And so I think, yeah, when you look back on how the season went, I mean, if maybe if you had more successes, you you know, you take it a little easier, because you're already competent yourself. But yeah, just this like real burning desire of I didn't want to lose any more. Shirt certainly impacted how I rode.
Spencer 34:09
Yeah, it's funny you talk about you, it is like a, you're like writing with heart and passion. But it's funny. You're also writing with like mathematical probability in mind where I think there's a complete misunderstanding and cycling of exactly what you say where everyone wants to sit in where it's like, well, if we sit in, or paxville like we're not going to win, we have a 0% chance of winning. But if you like come out like a lion and just like take the race to them, it's like maybe you increase your chance of winning to 3% That's better than zero you know, so I do kind of wonder if you're going to spark a movement and women's racing where you know, I'm just looking at the UCI calendar right now. Every major race pretty much has been won by one of three riders except your win at pay rib a were to like break this lockstep that that st Works has in the sport. I wonder if Like, hopefully your win will inspire other riders to be like, you know, we can beat these women if we race in like, a more aggressive way.
Alison Jackson 35:09
Yeah, and it some of it is interesting too. And some of the stage races we've been in, we see like other teams kind of taking up the chase instead of like, because, you know, everyone wants to be in contention for that room. So like, oh, we all want to bring it for the chance that we could get, you know, a top 10 and sprint finish, but yeah, but, I mean, yeah. Okay, so now your goal is to be a top 10 or, you know, the probability of maybe winning against the Lorena weaves in the, in the sprint is, is so low, but you really have to, like, you need to be able to, yeah, risk losing, and, or, you know, to be able to, like, put so much more pressure on STRS that they have to chase everything down, and then try to capitalize on it, but maybe not enough sprint final, but maybe in a late attack or something, but you have to be able to stay calm. And, and yeah, I guess like be able to be okay with a bit of risk. And you whether that risk is like going early and, and really fully writing committing to the breakaway, and writing it like that is your only option for a win. Or also like the risk of like, okay, we're since we're setting up the race, we're sending a breakaway so that we can, you know, use up some of the manpower that St. Works has to, you know, try to set up another another tactical move later that I think there needs to be a little bit more of that. I think, I mean, a lot of people want to just be kind of in the results sheet or you know, feel like trying to give themselves a chance maybe but I think by Yeah, exactly. Like, it ends up just been packed filled, there has to be some there when there needs to be something different that happens in the bike race or a different tactic brought in. Yeah, to, to. Yeah, try to try to take away and away from St. works basically.
Spencer 37:04
And, and when you would say go ahead, Andrew.
Andrew Vontz 37:08
I was just gonna say and when you're looking ahead at the calendar right now, like what's on your mind, where's your focus mentally, in terms of this is where I want to win next. I mean, not to give anything away. But I'm sure you have a couple of stages on your mind or specific events really like yeah, this is me. I'm all in. I'm going for it. So where is your head out right now?
Alison Jackson 37:28
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm super passionate Canadian, I really want to have the Maple Leafs Jersey back. So I mean, and the nationals are near my hometown. They're in Edmonton. So to be able to win in front of my family and friends would just be Yeah, just a real special thing. And I just love being able to ride in the Maple Leafs jersey for the rest of the season. And really, I think that's like my race to lose, you know, it's, it's a little bit more of a sure thing, or I'd be a top favorite to win that. So it's a little bit different kind of pressure going into that. I would love to be able to turn up to the Tour de France with the with really good form and to be able to put my hand up for, you know, being supportive for a stage when we do have like a great rider for the overall. So yeah, I really want to support that I just, I really want to see my team win. And I want to be a difference maker. And whether that is like being the difference maker is the one that crosses the line first for the team or the one that does what you know, makes the decision making or does the work that makes a difference for a teammate to take the win. That's that's what I want to see happen for my team. I just got back from Scotland, so previewing the the courses for Worlds there and I I really think the courses are Yeah, suit me very well. My best World Championships was was in Leuven in Belgium in 2021. Coming sixth there, and the Corson in Glasgow was quite is similar. It's punchy, it's technical. Yeah. And so I really want to gear up or or train specifically for that. That'd be Yeah, the other top on my my list for the year.
Spencer 39:27
And I assume Paris 2024. Is is that a big a big goal for you to the road race there.
Alison Jackson 39:35
Yeah. So I hope that at nationals to take both the road race and the time trial title there. And then yeah, basically just proved to be the top Canadian that first selection for the tantra on the road racing in Paris. And the course is also like a city circuit. You know, punchy, it's technical. There'll be a little bit of climb. mean, cobbles. So I think it'll just be it'll be a really fun course. And it's also one that sort of, you know, gets me excited. So yeah, and you know, as a Canadian, the Olympics really means more, I think to us like North Americans, you know, we're coming from a culture that is not steeped in cycling. So when I tell you know, people are, you know, in mainstream media or whatever, that professional cyclists, like they'll ask, I'll do you know, heavy race, the Tour de France? Or like, Is it like the Tour de France? Or, you know, do have you been to the Olympics, and those are kind of like, validating moments. But also as a kid, like, before I dreamed of being cyclists I dreamed of being an Olympian, and whether that was going to be in gymnastics, or running or almost any other sport, I just had the Olympic dream. So that's still like that little girl dream that, you know, still in my heart. So I would love for you to be able to compete at the Olympics. I mean, to be able to make it to the Olympics is such a hard thing to do. Just to be on the team. But yeah, after being you know, checking that off the list by getting to Tokyo now I just really have my, my eyes set on. How can I you know, get a top performance in Paris? Yeah.
Spencer 41:25
To not take us too far back. But just to pull on the Canadian thread a little bit, because we just saw Derek G come out of nowhere and dominate this year to tell you and I was kind of joking during the race of like, is like it's terrible weather. Is he wondering like, when's this weather gonna get bad? Like this is? This is not too bad. Just rain every day. But it's 50 degrees. That's That's great compared to Vancouver Island, but like a what is going on in Canada? Why are you guys so good? And B, kind of how did you go from this tiny town in Alberta? With I assume no cycling culture? I don't think there's a rough clubhouse there yet. But, you know, and then you went to school in British Columbia, you were running doing triathlon? You know, how did you kind of turn that corner? And then what was the support, like within Canada, you know, to get you to the level where you are now?
Alison Jackson 42:14
Yeah, for sure. There's no cyclists in my town. And, you know, that was not something that I saw happening. But I am, I'm a yes person. And I just, and I love experiencing new things and trying new things and trying to be excellent at the things that I dive into. And, I mean, I would say that a lot of that comes from, like a farming mentality of like, what you put in is what you're gonna get out, like, what you the work that you put into the farmers what you're going to reap later. And kind of like, you know, a big picture, focus a big or holding that big picture idea, but being able to put in like the, you know, menial tasks every day in order to kind of get to that big goal. So I think I've taken that attitude from farm life. And yeah. When I did get into cycling, I mean, it was from like, you know, club riders just encouraging me or thinking that I would be a great racer, and then, you know, jumping into BC super weak and doing well against some pros. And then and then it was actually the cycling. My cycling club leader connected me with the cycling can Canada president and, and he had put in a good word for me at the World Championships to like a North American team, who then they called me and, you know, I got the, the opportunity. And then I did a project with cycling Canada and Europe for a couple of weeks was racing crits and caresses in Belgium, and, you know, winning a lot of races there, which, then I think that's really what showed, like my aptitude to be able to, to bridge, you know, North American style racing to European style racing. And then, yeah, and then, you know, I've raced the world championships with the national team every year of my career, maybe a couple of projects that that they've done. I think like for a national team, the most important thing is that they provide development opportunities for you know, juniors, u 20. Threes or you know, athletes starting out and really introducing them to European racing as soon as possible because if you want to be the best you have to race against the best and the best are racing on the European circuit. And I think like you know, a lot of it was just like my my talent of my attitude of I'm You know, just like being super aggressive in the races, like I just have this real desire to win, so, and no fear. And I think that really helped like jumping into the European style of racing, where it's like chaos and crazy. I think a lot of times like North Americans come over to Europe and it's a bit intimidating jumping into small road, you know, big peloton kind of racing. But yeah, I think, you know, what's been great is like, we've we've always had, you know, some exceptional riders come out of Canada. And I think, especially on the women's side, the women's side has really held up committee and cycling for a long time. But then, you know, we get like a character like Mike Woods out who's a great ambassador for cycling and, and then was, you know, at the forefront of like, you know, can you win a Tour de France stage? And then, yeah, I think there's quite a, actually an age gap from from sort of, you know, my era and there's like Leah Coltrane and Carolyn Cantwell. And then you know, Mike woods, and some of the guys there that have been recent, a long time, there's coming quite an age gap from them to the next up and coming athletes. And so whether it, you know, what was a? Why is that? I don't know, like, why. Yeah, there wasn't much good development happening in that time or whatever. But, yeah, Derek G isn't a great guy to watch perform. He, he also is just such a lovely human character. You know, he really just wanted to get it and give it his best. He's got a really good, you know, balance of perspective, which is like, I like to think a Canadian trait. And, yeah, I mean, he did some of the track program with the national team. And I mean, everyone knows his dad as being a super great racer, Masters racer out in Ottawa area. And, yeah, so I think, you know, he comes from a good bike race family. Yeah, he's got a lot of talent. And it was a, you know, really cool to see just like all that he could accomplish or get after, at the Jarrell, I think what I loved is that, you know, he just wanted to finish the race. And then, you know, when he was in that first Breakaway, and getting second, it was like, Wow, this was like something that could never have dreamed of, and what a great thing, but by the end on that, whatever, stage 14 or wherever it was, when you know, he, it was his third or third time actually writing in the Breakway. And he gets second, and he's so upset, because now he believes so much that he could win. And he showed when, and I just love that change of perspective and how confidence grew from just being Oh, happy to be there, to now having this being able to set goals and believe that He can do it. I just thought that was such a you could see basically the character development, the the career development in, you know, just the span of the two weeks there. So yeah, you know, and he's super on forum for the time, you know, this time and also the opportunity to ride the Giro, when you didn't have a leader allows opportunities for things like to ride for breakaways or to try try stuff. You know, will he get that same sort of opportunity again? And other years? Maybe not? But yeah, he's, he's got a long career ahead of them, I
Spencer 48:28
think. So that initial kernel, really, of that the National Program getting you to Europe for that, that first season of racing sounds like it was key, you know, that, to basically elevate you from BC super week to now you're in Europe racing. I guess Derek G has the event, maybe we need to lean on Sylvan Adams to start a women's team. But it definitely helps the men to have like a Canadian who runs, you know, a very, very successful and wealthy men's team. So if we could get a get him running a women's team, that would have been even better, but it's Yeah,
Alison Jackson 49:02
because that's, that's true. You You need to have people that help you bridge that gap or make the connection because, you know, for me, I was winning races in North America. And so Okay, once you're a winner, everyone loves a winner, and maybe they'll take a chance on you, but still even coming from North American Racing, where you can win here, it's still not the same in Europe. And, and people know that they don't see how you're racing. So even to get a, you know, a contract offer that way, it's still pretty tough. What you need is, is Yeah, either people, you know, from your national team that are able to make, you know, character connections for you and really advocate for you. Or it's, you know, someone like Sylvan Adams that really wants to have Canadian athletes on the team and, and then, you know, talk to the people to try to, you know, figure out who those people would be to give them that chance and give them a chance before they have any, you know, big results. Yeah, I think that's that's really important for the development of are Canadian athletes.
Andrew Vontz 50:03
And Alison, you mentioned you'd like to race really aggressively, you have a high degree of self belief. And there's this very steep delta between racing in North America. And as you said, you were dropped into these classes and Belgium or whatever. When you headed over there for those first races, did you have a high degree of self belief? And were you looking forward to like being thrown into that Mosh? Or were you kind of scared?
Alison Jackson 50:30
No, I, I went there to win. Because I think so, you know, my perspective was awesome, like, coming from a small town. I was like, the big fish in a little pond, I could win anything, in any sport, I could enter it, and I was going to be successful. But then, you know, you level up to another, you know, a provincial wide level or a national level. And then I, you know, I wasn't going to be able to win those things. But what I, what happened to me was that I created such a belief that, well, anything I entered, I could just win. And whether it was like, Okay, maybe it takes some time to sort of figure it out. But I want to figure it out. Quick. And, you know, how have I been winning other things? Well, by being aggressive by working hard, and by, like, giving a full energy not backing away, but But in, you know, entering into these situations with a, you know, full attitude, or, you know, all in and so, I think, you know, you I won a bunch of small races. And so really, I just took that like, yeah, okay, I could do, you know, I could, I should be able to win any race, but I would take that ad attitude, and I would never, you know, shy away from like, oh, in this permisos, Mariana Voss, like, she's quite a big deal. I just took it as like, it doesn't matter. I just, this is how I've learned to, to win bike races. I'm gonna take that in. I just, yeah, I just want to win. And I believe I can do it. And so when I came into the classes, yeah, I was never, you know, shying away from the law. Maybe I need to learn a little bit more. I just was like, yeah, yeah. You know, you kind of take that you learn to that you can when you learn that and like, small, you know, that small towns sort of idea. But then now you've developed this winning attitude or this winning mindset. And then it didn't matter what environment I was put in, I was still taking that winning attitude. And so yeah, going to classes or even my first year racing, all the world cups or that, you know, what are now the world's three races in the spring. I remember I was racing just like Lizzie Dinah, or she was Lizzie Armisen, at the time she was world champion. And I wasn't basically right, in every position. She was writing, I was writing, I was writing, like, I was a world champion. But then, you know, we would get to that 20k to go. And also, I had nothing left. Because, you know, I was, I probably was, I was doing too much work. I was writing, like, I had the fitness of a world champion, but I was not the world champion. And so then I totally, you know, die. But part of it was just like learning to, to, yeah, finesse that a little bit. But also, I think, you know, that self belief. Yeah, really has, has taught me a lot in the racing. So how do you raise like a champion, and then, and then it also has, you know, set me up for some, some bigger race wins as well.
Spencer 53:08
That's fascinating. I think about this a lot. Like I have a friend who grew up racing in New Mexico, which is not like a, you know, a hotbed of cycling. And he always thinks he's gonna win every race. Like even if, you know, like, you know, a world champion is there where I'm like, Well, I don't know, man, like, I don't think you can, but it's like having that mentality, where it's the same thing where it's like, Should you go to a super elite private school for high school and be, you know, just one in the bunch of many smart pupils? Or is it better just to be the smartest person in your town and to, it's almost like you've learned you've learned the skill of confidence first. And then now you're leveraging that in these big races and just letting your fitness catch up? It's, it's really interesting is it kind of, I think it kind of goes counter to you know, what most like young parents like, Andrew and I, you know, our children are away at elite private schools, because we just want them to succeed. It's all it's all we think about as them being an ex president. That's a joke, by the way, they're not but there is a pressure when you're a young parent to like, you know, your kid, or my kid is behind, he's three years old, you know, he needs to get away to a basketball camp if he wants to be a really good basketball player. But it's fascinating to see you've you've like, you've really succeeded at the opposite of that just like learning to dominate people and like learning learning the skill of winning and domination and confidence and then learning the other stuff later has has worked really well for you. Yeah,
Alison Jackson 54:38
whether the whether that will work like as a as a theory that we could implement for everyone,
Spencer 54:43
I don't know we're doing a course we got books, books are being written as we speak on this. We're all gonna just go around doing speaking circuits on this now.
Alison Jackson 54:53
But I did have a coach in when I was at Trinity Western University, and he Lauria, Primo, and he was the Athletics Director for Scotland, Scotland athletics, and they had done a study, basically where like, they had found a lot of their top athletes in the running world were from these, like small towns, and it was like, it seemed like a bit of a trend. And it was like, Well, why would that be, and some of the, the theory that kind of came out was that, you know, you come from a small town, one, you have so much space outdoors, so you're more physical as a child, so you're not just in inside or you know, have to be inside the city or whatever, you have just more space. So you've become more of a robust athlete, just by access to easy outdoor time. And then the other was that you, you learn to win. And then you, you, you learn a winning mindset already. And what it takes to win and how, and, and how it feels to win. And then you, you take that and so when you level up into another, you know level or harder competition, you're actually still taking that winning mindset. And you know, what, what it's like to win. And so and so then you learn how to do it faster. So that was always something that I thought was really interesting that they kind of that, you know, I feel like I can apply to myself, or maybe I took that theory, and I just thought that's a great theory, I am going to manifest it in my life. But yeah,
Spencer 56:32
that's interesting. I mean, I guess it works better in most, like low skill sports or like, but you don't see many NBA players come from small towns, because I guess you just kind of, it's a Connecticut game. And the more you watch people play, the more your neural pathways build, like different ways to play the game, but in you know, in running or cycling,
Alison Jackson 56:52
but we can also see like, hockey, you know, like kids in small rural town, you know, Canadian towns, they just there's, there's not much else to do in the town besides just like, be outside on the, on the pond or in the street playing hockey. And so you you just like learn these skills over and over, you have the time to just like spend five hours just doing it as play. But there's not other things that distract you from doing other things. So I think that that would depend, it would be interesting to look maybe other sports or even like basketball like, Where was the wizard? You know, kids that just spent like hours and hours just like in the driveway? Because they had nothing else to do. Is that because it's a small town thing? Or it's just like access to more outdoor time? Yeah,
Spencer 57:40
I don't know. That is interesting. Think about this? Yeah, you're right. Because, yeah, I guess hockey's different too, because it's almost like the bigger town you live in, the more expensive access to ice can be so the smaller town you're in. You can be on the ice for longer for a more affordable price, perhaps.
Andrew Vontz 58:01
Yeah, I think you can look for these tips and Spencer's forthcoming book, The Talent Code 2.0. And something that I'm I'm, I'm curious about to maybe bring this back to the tour. So Alison, as you mentioned, the team has objectives at the tour. I'm sure as you mentioned, you would love to get a stage when and you now have this Perry, rube a win under your belt as well. I'm curious what happens within the team when when you have that victory? Is there a kind of a commutative property of confidence where the team's belief and its ability to win? elevates? And how do you think about that, as you head into the tour and kind of building a coalition of confidence around you to get that stage win?
Alison Jackson 58:44
Yeah, I mean, that's what I kept seeing was my hope, out of winning and winning the way I did with bold boldness and confidence and self belief. And I really wanted that to just like, take over the whole team. And I was hoping to see that other riders or my team would take on that mentality, because in the next races they would do, because right after that race, I end up having conversations with my teammates, and they were just like, you could see that they were inspired and amazed that like, wow, like you took that into your own hands. And you were really bold in a way that we thought was not going to be the way to win and then you did win. And I just hope that uh, you know, I kept saying to everyone to, you know, really like specifically like this, you know, this is how we win races. This could be you, you have to, you know, try something and whatever but you know, and so far in the races, I just haven't seen that for my teammates, and I just like, yeah, how, as much as I would want to inspire that that same attitude and whatever it I haven't seen it spilled over yet. I mean, I think I've still taken so much competence from this and even in some of the other races that I've been doing, I've been like Starting the echelons and leaving things out and going on the attack and, you know, still trying to even, like, continue to be lead by example, I guess for for my teammates, because I still really believe that this is like, the best way to race and, and yeah, how we can pull off, you know, some more results and stuff. But yeah, I still haven't quite seen that in my my team yet. So I don't know what it would take to get everyone really like on board that I think a lot of what it has done even within, you know, cycling Canada, you know, some of the girls there to have been like, wow, okay, if you could do this, I can do this. Which, but Well, yeah, what more has happened is that my teammates have have more belief in me as a team leader, to, you know, to win races and, and so like, I think, you know, if I put my hand up for you know, that I really want to win a stage in the, in the tour, for example, I think my teammates are, were really committed, they'll have the belief that I can do that. And, and when you have a leader that you really believe can win, then you as a teammate, a lot of times you can pull out even bigger, better performances from yourself with that belief. So it may be at first it starts with the, you know, believe in me more than it's possible, and then, you know, really confidence in me. And then hopefully then that translates, you know, they practice that and, you know, seeing that they can do more with the belief, you know, in their leader and then maybe they take that belief into their themselves to, you know, bring that competence out in in races. So, yeah, I guess we'll just see, I keep That's what I keep preaching to everybody. And yeah, we'll see what how it translates into bike racing, I guess.
Spencer 1:01:50
In my last question is Are you back in Canada for the National Championships? Is that your next race?
Alison Jackson 1:01:57
Yeah, yeah. There. Yeah. June 23 25th and 26th in Edmonton, so it's just like a couple hours from the Bison Ranch. So looking forward to having Yeah, my my family, my nephews and nieces all come and so in some, yeah. Childhood friends and people come out to see the Perry Ruby champion racing in Edmonton local.
Spencer 1:02:23
Do you have team EF teammates in that race with you?
Alison Jackson 1:02:27
Yeah, actually, I'm really looking forward to having Sarah Poitevin she's a Canadian, also from Alberta. She's been one of my best teammates actually. Throughout the spring just like really knows how to arrive as a teammate like a super Domestique. Absolutely. And even in paradise you She was my best teammate were it was either going to be her I that was in that breakaway when we were riding that day. And she really liked set up some of the moments for me to get into that breakaway. So yeah, I'm looking forward to racing with her. It'll it'll make the race at Nationals much easier to manage or just help our odds of taking home the win.
Spencer 1:03:08
So there is like, I've often when with like Team Sky or any I was like, there's so many of them, like do they go in? Do most people go in with a team plan to national championships? Or is it like, this is a free for all, like, everyone's just trying to win? And like we see who wins? Or is it just depends? Yeah, I
Alison Jackson 1:03:26
mean, we'll look at the course. I mean, it'll be dictated by her and I we won't have you know, a directive from the team or anything like that. It'll be basically how do you want to want to race? You know, a lot of people will argue that nationals is an individual race, but I mean, we're, it's a team sport, and we're, we're, yeah, we want to see each other be successful. And for us and for the team, like, you know, the team would just want to have the national champion and they wouldn't care who it was. And yeah, I think also between me and Sarah were super supportive of each other and I would just, yeah, I think it's you know, I have zero tolerance for us not taking the win, but I don't care who it is. So I think yeah, we'll be able to we know each other well enough to also know what our strengths are and how we could take home the win and so we'll try to set that up and the various ways that that we can
Spencer 1:04:25
coach Jackson's had enough of losing it's not an option working on your own bikes or do you get support from the team for that race?
Alison Jackson 1:04:37
Yeah, we'll be we'll be here on our own we'll get support actually from our like provinces are all ride with cycling BC avoid when I started bike racing, it was out in BC and so I've always connected with the Provincial Club and BC and they'll they always do a great job to to offer support and be a follow car in the road race and also a follow car The Time Trial So, but yeah, it's a pretty bare bones kind of thing. It's always funny sometimes, you know, you go from world to where, where everything is taken care of for you, you don't have to think at all. You just show up and you do what the job is, and but you know that your bottles are going to be ready, your equipment is going to be good. And, you know, you're going to have the big bust to chill in before before you, you know, rock up to the race start. And here, it's like, oh, yeah, I remember what it was like when I first started and you have to leave your own chain. And you have to try to remember these things. Like, what do I need to bring? Because if you don't ever have this checklist that you that you have for a racecar because the team takes care of it. So it is funny a little bit. Going back to the humble roots, but also, in a way, it's good to just remember like, oh, yeah, we're, you know, it's such a privilege to get to race at the World Tour. And that, you know, all these things really make a difference for performance. But even without them you can still pull off, you know, a great ride in a race and, and, you know, all those things become can become just extra, like, what is the minimum that you need in order to perform really well. And actually, it's, you know, you don't need it need a lot
Andrew Vontz 1:06:23
of you previewed the course.
Alison Jackson 1:06:26
Yeah, well, we raced the same course. It's a little bit different. But we raced it a similar setup last year. It will be that this year, it'll be nationals will be in Edmonton for three years. So this will be the second year. We'll have another year that will be hosted by the the Yeah, event group in Edmonton. So yeah, I have seen it. Newer pretty well. Yeah, it's a it's a good little course that goes in and out of the riverbed.
Andrew Vontz 1:06:58
Do you want to call your shot?
Alison Jackson 1:07:02
Like where it's gonna happen in the race?
Andrew Vontz 1:07:04
where's it gonna go down? Where do you impose your well?
Alison Jackson 1:07:08
Well, anytime I can make the race hard, I'm gonna make it hard. And then we're just gonna thin out the group until the last moments of the race.
Spencer 1:07:17
Sounds like sounds out plan.
Andrew Vontz 1:07:20
Yeah, sounds like DWR Lawrence wafer.
Spencer 1:07:23
Yeah. But before you go, actually, now, I've been meaning to ask you this since since you grew up, like in such a gravel, heavy area, like, you know, you invented gravel riding in many ways, just taking a road bike out on gravel. Like, do you plan on doing any gravel races? North American or European? Based in the next few months? or years? Are you just like solely focused on the road?
Alison Jackson 1:07:48
Yeah, I have a lot of goals still on the on the road. And like, I love, like, when I go out on the gravel bike, it really reminds me that bike riding is fun. When I'm on the road bike. A lot of times I think like, this is training. When I'm on the gravel bike, it just is like euphoria. It's just so fun. So I like that, that I have that, that I have that discipline that I can keep us just fun. So to target some like racing, then, you know, it would change that perspective a little bit of, of why I'm on the bike. So I like that, that I have that change of discipline. But But I mean, I love racing. So I'll race anything. So yeah, to hop into some gravel stuff, I think would just be really fun. But I also just love like the atmosphere of gravel riding that it really is like a community thing. And you know, road racing is can be quite cutthroat it doesn't have that same type of community but the gravel does. So I love being in around that community and and I think like for sure I'm gonna be like now that you know b WR has won in Victoria and stuff, do you I think that's super cool. And, and also just like a chance to get to ride these new new roads and explore something new. And, you know, I love meeting people at the races and stuff. So I think it'll we'll sprinkle some of that gravel racing in in my future. But yeah, I've got a lot of just road racing goals to accomplish first.
Spencer 1:09:22
I will I we should probably let you go. But you've been very generous with your time. But do you have any last questions? Andrew, before we take off?
Andrew Vontz 1:09:31
I think that this is the logical point in time, Allison, when Spencer and I invite you to come to the BWI or waffle ride with us in Lawrence, Kansas and mid October. I'm sure that that would be perfect for your 2024 preparation. So we'll just throw that out there. And we also want to let our fans know. Yes, there is a collaboration dance coming on Instagram Stories soon. We're working on it. Spencer's cringing but it's gonna go down
Spencer 1:10:00
It's a little bit less of a lift, but if you cannot make it to the race, we will be calling you the night before for a pep talk. Yeah I will thank you for joining us. And yeah, thanks so much, Alison. Best of luck at Nationals.
Alison Jackson 1:10:20
Cheers. Thanks My pleasure.